Members jeff42 Posted January 7, 2014 Members Share Posted January 7, 2014 Written by a local musician. Im not sure I agree with his entire article or calling out a local band and club but there are some points to be made. I figured its kind of dead here so I'd post it here so we all can argue over it... or discuss. WHY MOST COVER BANDS NEED TO DIEPublished January 7, 2014 | One of the things that kept me from posting here on the regular for all of 2013 and much of the previous year was being involved with live music again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted January 7, 2014 Members Share Posted January 7, 2014 Can't argue that the list is about as tired as it gets. I would be curious to know how long the band in question has been together. While I'm not defending the list - there is an argument that could be made for such a list if the band is a new startup that has slapped that particular list together as an LCD (lowest common denominator) setlist in order to allow them to either fulfill gigs that somebody in the band had booked from a previous project ... or simply to speed an exit from the basement/garage. Whether such a strategy (the whole toss together an LCD list in order to start gigging immediately thing...) is wise is a whole 'nother discussion. On the plus side - bands like this can certainly make your job alot easier if this is what you're competing against. Like Napolean Bonapart said ..."Never interrupt your opponent when he's making a mistake!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted January 7, 2014 Members Share Posted January 7, 2014 We do Hey Jealousy, What I Got, and Blister in the Sun from that list. Hey Jealousy we play only sporadically. I agree they are tired tho. I wish people would stop enjoying them so much when we play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted January 7, 2014 Members Share Posted January 7, 2014 If you're a musician and think a band sucks, do better and go take their work or STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjmarsicano Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi, folks.I am the author of the piece that sparked this particular thread, and I was invited to join in the discussion with one of the posters. I'll be responding to some of the comments here and if there's any other questions, fire away. - CJ Marsicano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjmarsicano Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 SpaceNorman wrote: Can't argue that the list is about as tired as it gets. I would be curious to know how long the band in question has been together. While I'm not defending the list - there is an argument that could be made for such a list if the band is a new startup that has slapped that particular list together as an LCD (lowest common denominator) setlist in order to allow them to either fulfill gigs that somebody in the band had booked from a previous project ... or simply to speed an exit from the basement/garage. Whether such a strategy (the whole toss together an LCD list in order to start gigging immediately thing...) is wise is a whole 'nother discussion. On the plus side - bands like this can certainly make your job alot easier if this is what you're competing against. Like Napolean Bonapart said ..."Never interrupt your opponent when he's making a mistake!". Norman, your thoughts on how long this band has (or hasn't) been together pretty much echo mine. And your closing paragraph is very true. The job is even easier when you're doing or planning to do all original material, as I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinC Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 I really like Lee's post. Unless I'm going to see the original artist I don't care what songs a band plays. I just care about the performance. Can they sing and play well? Do they groove? Are they interesting to watch? Exciting? Original in some way? It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.What if it was illegal to play someone else's songs? How many bands could still be entertains? If the answer for a particular band is no, then maybe they need Gordon.Jazz musicians play a lot of the same songs but the real appeal is what the players do during their solos, not how they play the head. No jazz musician can get away with playing other people's solos. To be considered a good jazz player you have to create your own. Same in many styles. I know I'm a musician so my view doesn't count, only my girlfriend who doesn't know squat about music? Screw that. Club owners demand set lists. Many Musicians comply, but its not in their best interests IMO. Musicians should play what they love and let the chips fall. Life is short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjmarsicano Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 SLScott86 wrote: If you're a musician and think a band sucks, do better and go take their work or STFU. Or do like I did - abandon one job field (cover bands) and get involved with a better one (original bands). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 MartinC wrote: Jazz musicians play a lot of the same songs but the real appeal is what the players do during their solos, not how they play the head. No jazz musician can get away with playing other people's solos. To be considered a good jazz player you have to create your own. Same in many styles. I know I'm a musician so my view doesn't count, only my girlfriend who doesn't know squat about music? Screw that. It's all about the intent of the delivery and the intended audience. I really don't think that a cover band with this sort of songlist is out to reach other musicians with their music. Obviously, they aren't playing jazz. More likely, they are after their girlfriends. So yeah, maybe your or my opinion of the music actually doesn't really count in this case.Not every restuarant is out to impress the Gordon Ramseys of the food world. Maybe they are just trying to reach Gordon's kids. Gordon, as an experienced chef with a refined palette, may not like the food, but if they do what they do well enough, hopefully he'll at least appreciate their business model and professionalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 jeff42 wrote: Written by a local musician. Im not sure I agree with his entire article or calling out a local band and club but there are some points to be made. I figured its kind of dead here so I'd post it here so we all can argue over it... or discuss. WHY MOST COVER BANDS NEED TO DIEPublished January 7, 2014 | One of the things that kept me from posting here on the regular for all of 2013 and much of the previous year was being involved with live music again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjmarsicano Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 wheresgrant3 wrote: The flip side to that is cover bands should be about background noise for a customers enjoyment, as a band is slightly upper scale when compared to a Dee Jay or a Juke Box. Only about 15% of the song should register with a bar patron. They're not there to see you, because you're a cover band. They're there to pick someone up or hang out with friends. Either way the band is irrelevant to the situation except for ambient noise... link to orginal:http://thegroovemusiclife.com/2014/01/07/why-most-cover-bands-need-to-die/ I counted through this setlist and 15 of the 38 songs we've played or were setlist staples in a 12 year run... 8 of those years as one of the top drawing bands in upstate NY. While I have no love for this particular setlist and it shows zero creativity on the part of the band I'm not certain what you mean by this statement...The flip side to that is cover bands should be about background noise for a customers enjoyment, as a band is slightly upper scale when compared to a Dee Jay or a Juke Box. Only about 15% of the song should register with a bar patron. They're not there to see you, because you're a cover band. They're there to pick someone up or hang out with friends. Either way the band is irrelevant to the situation except for ambient noise... Grant, If you check the original link, THAT paragraph was NEVER in my original post, and I don't know why Jeff included it in his reposting. I recognize the paragraph as someone else's comment in the NEPA Musicians Facebook group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 You did correctly identify hyperbole. But the point remains that VH took songs and made them into something more, or at least something different, to suit their style, and people loved it. That's what a good cover band does, regardless of their choice of starting point melody, lyrics, and harmony. Certainly a lack of setlist variety can be an indicator of a bad band, but it isn't why they need to die. It's simply why they need to evaluate their setlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 SLScott86 wrote: You did correctly identify hyperbole. But the point remains that VH took songs and made them into something more, or at least something different, to suit their style, and people loved it. That's what a good cover band does, regardless of their choice of starting point melody, lyrics, and harmony. Certainly a lack of setlist variety can be an indicator of a bad band, but it isn't why they need to die. It's simply why they need to evaluate their setlist. And VH was hardly straying very far from the "standards" list by doing covers like You Really Got Me and Pretty Woman. Nor were they re-thinking the arrangements very much. Yet those were obviously pretty much perfect songs for them to remake.Other, more out-in-left-field song choices and more "rethought" arrangements such as what they did with "You're No Good" resulted in much more mixed opinions from their fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 Fans are stupid about a lot of things. We did a version of Teenage Dream that started with some beautiful clean guitar work and shifted into a melodeath solo and ended with big rock. It went over really well, but somebody told somebody that he lost respect for us and we never played it again. All because it started as a Katy Perry song. A band got booed at a metal BOTB for doing a very cool cover of Lights. A song is what you make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 SLScott86 wrote: Fans are stupid about a lot of things. We did a version of Teenage Dream that started with some beautiful clean guitar work and shifted into a melodeath solo and ended with big rock. It went over really well, but somebody told somebody that he lost respect for us and we never played it again. All because it started as a Katy Perry song. A band got booed at a metal BOTB for doing a very cool cover of Lights. A song is what you make it. Yes, fans can often be very narrow-minded about what certain things "are" and "should be". So can many musicians, for that matter. There was a whole thread here once devoted to the "horror" of rock-guitar-hero Nuno Bettencourt deciding to take a gig backing up Rihanna. Sorry to hear that you guys abandoned a cool version of a song that went over really well just because one guy (or a few) claimed to "lose respect" for you because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 Me too. It was also pretty high maintenance, and given the length of our sets, we had more bankable covers to choose from. We didn't need it. But I was still very sad to see it go over a passing comment that was probably meant to be in jest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 Back on point though. Half ass bands are bad, professional bands are good. That goes for cover bands, original bands, and solo artists with hired guns. The know it all tone bugged me a lot. Especially the specificity of it before seeing the band. If you half ass a crowd pleaser that you don't want to play, of course it will fall flat if you can't sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 SLScott86 wrote: Me too. It was also pretty high maintenance, and given the length of our sets, we had more bankable covers to choose from. We didn't need it. But I was still very sad to see it go over a passing comment that was probably meant to be in jest. I love it when bands do out-of-the-box covers. I know it's kind of become cliche to do acoustic versions of pop songs, but I just saw this one last night on TV and thought it was pretty cool. Here's a short bit from the TV concert.http://www.vh1.com/music/tuner/2013-11-16/you-oughta-know-johnnyswim-britney-spears/BTW, for those not familiar with Nashville-based duo Johnnyswim, the female is Donna Summer's daughter. This is them doing it at home, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinC Posted January 8, 2014 Members Share Posted January 8, 2014 I thought he blog post was lame. A writer judging a band he's never even heard who turns out to be a musician himself. I've known some incredible musicians- guys who were in name acts, guys with gold records on their walls, and guys who at the top of their respective fields. I've never heard any of those full time pros bad mouthing other musicians. To the contrary, the greatest player I've ever been around ( as his student) always found something good to say about other players no matter the fact they were not in his league. I realize writers have to write something but writers putting down other musicians then claiming superior knowledge or experience seldom come out looking good. I would ask the author of the blog post to consider how he would feel if a better more established musician blasted his work without evn doing the courtesy of listening to it. For that matter, it probably wouldn't feel much better if he did have a listen first. If you want to be a critic, fine. You want to be a critic of bands and musicians choices and also be respected as a player? Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted January 9, 2014 Members Share Posted January 9, 2014 Self appointed judges judge, more than they have sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 9, 2014 Members Share Posted January 9, 2014 MartinC wrote: I've known some incredible musicians- guys who were in name acts, guys with gold records on their walls, and guys who at the top of their respective fields. I've never heard any of those full time pros bad mouthing other musicians. To the contrary, the greatest player I've ever been around ( as his student) always found something good to say about other players no matter the fact they were not in his league. Yep. It almost seems like the higher you go up the food chain, the less likely you are to hear such criticisms. The guys at the top don't need to bag on others much further beneath them. Their obvious skills and position in the business speak for themselves.I would doubt even Gordon Ramsey goes around spitting up food and calling it "bloody awful" at little restaurants around the world in his everyday life. He does it on TV because he's paid to, and because it entertains those who don't know much about food anyway. I could be wrong, but I'm going to guess that Wolfgang Puck and Jamie Oliver don't spend much time watching "Kitchen Nightmares". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjmarsicano Posted January 9, 2014 Members Share Posted January 9, 2014 MartinC wrote: I thought he blog post was lame. A writer judging a band he's never even heard who turns out to be a musician himself. I've known some incredible musicians- guys who were in name acts, guys with gold records on their walls, and guys who at the top of their respective fields. I've never heard any of those full time pros bad mouthing other musicians. To the contrary, the greatest player I've ever been around ( as his student) always found something good to say about other players no matter the fact they were not in his league. I realize writers have to write something but writers putting down other musicians then claiming superior knowledge or experience seldom come out looking good. I would ask the author of the blog post to consider how he would feel if a better more established musician blasted his work without evn doing the courtesy of listening to it. For that matter, it probably wouldn't feel much better if he did have a listen first. If you want to be a critic, fine. You want to be a critic of bands and musicians choices and also be respected as a player? Good luck. Hello, Martin.As the author of the original blog post, my critique was of their song selection only. Obviously I can't critique a band I never heard (and I'm not about to drive 45 minutes one way just to hear them), so I don't know how they'll pull the songs off. In my home area (Northeastern PA), cover bands cloning other's song lists is becoming a common mistake, with bands like this appearing and disappearing almost on the regular. Many of the other participants in the thread have gotten the point of my blog post - why haven't you? -- CJ Marsicano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinC Posted January 9, 2014 Members Share Posted January 9, 2014 Maybe they kick ass playing those songs you hate. Your point seems to be that since you consider their song list lame, they must suck. Then you imply that you could straighten them out ala Ramsey based on your experience. Maybe you could but without knowing the quality of the players it seems arrogant to assume that is the case. A buddy of mine hired david garibaldi to so a cover gig once. He didnt ask about the set list. thats my point. Since you are a performing musician you are subject to the same sort of unfair criticism. Playing originals? Oh so you make no money because you blah blah blah......... See how that works? Glass houses man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cjmarsicano Posted January 9, 2014 Members Share Posted January 9, 2014 MartinC wrote: Maybe they kick ass playing those songs you hate. Your point seems to be that since you consider their song list lame, they must suck. Then you imply that you could straighten them out ala Ramsey based on your experience. Maybe you could but without knowing the quality of the players it seems arrogant to assume that is the case. A buddy of mine hired david garibaldi to so a cover gig once. He didnt ask about the set list. thats my point. Since you are a performing musician you are subject to the same sort of unfair criticism. Playing originals? Oh so you make no money because you blah blah blah......... See how that works? Glass houses man. I don't know what area you're from, but around here in NEPA cover bands seem to be dying. We'd be playing at our hardest and even with whatever supposed "guaranteed crowd pleasers" we had in our set list, the reactions weren't what they should have been. And that was a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SLScott86 Posted January 9, 2014 Members Share Posted January 9, 2014 It's also quite possible that, if it's a new band, the setlist came together because they all knew these songs from previous bands. If you can start gigging with what you've got, why wait? I'm not saying that's what happened, and I even doubt it because they often times only chose the third or fourth lowest hanging fruit from artists. I mean, the point of being creative to find less cliche songs is taken. That's a good idea. But a cliche setlist is really just a single possible symptom of a core "problem." Maybe they're mailing it in. Maybe it's not a priority. Maybe they just enjoy playing and those songs allow them to play occasionally. Sure, if you're a good band with time to work out other things, by all means do. But in all the times I've seen Mustang Sally pack the dance floor, I've never heard any of the dancers complain about how many times it's been played. Base your setlist based on what's working, not on what some guy who hasn't heard you says will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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