Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Duly noted about the wieght issue. I will also check out the Egnator and Randall. So the Triaxis seems to be thought of as quaint. What is the best, top of the line, versatile preamp? I think the preamp is the main thing I need help with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 I'd say the ultimate preamp is the CAE 3+SE as far as people raving about it. The Engl 580 pre is crazy midi and sounds good but is way too much. Check out the 3+SE, John Suhr offers mods on it too, coupled with a nice preamp and that would be awesome enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 So the CAE 3+SE and Engl 580? How much are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sp_spaceboy Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Mr Ten I'd say the ultimate preamp is the CAE 3+SE as far as people raving about it. The Engl 580 pre is crazy midi and sounds good but is way too much. Check out the 3+SE, John Suhr offers mods on it too, coupled with a nice preamp and that would be awesome enough. yeh, from what I've heard (that is, no personal experience) that seems to be true. I THINK the Engl was about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Longhair Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by sp_spaceboy yeh, from what I've heard (that is, no personal experience) that seems to be true. I THINK the Engl was about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Heck no! That may be the price of the 530 preamp, but the 580 tube/midi pre lists in the US for like 3K and goes for like 2400 or so. the cae unit is one of the best solutions as far as a rack pre, IMO. just gotta find the right power amp to go with. cae 3+ se CAE link: http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/3_SE_preamp.htm 3+se manual: http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/3+SEPreamp.pdf I really like vht power amps, light years ahead of others, but have only used them with rack effects and not preamps (used a feed from an amp's preamp section). i don't know of many talked about power amps but would basically think about the vht 2:50:2 or 2:90:2, or the mesa amps, the simul class 2:90 was really popular, not sure if it is considered dated yet. as far as effects, cheap would be like a line6 echo pro and another one for chorus, or a g-major, pricier would be a g-force or lexicon mpx-g2, and then the eventide eclipse. plenty of other options in the "under a grand" range. could be a real simple setup. and depending on tuners, having a rackmount tuner is cool, noisy, but helps on stage, or use a petersen strobe, depends on the rack spaces used... cae = 2 power = 2 effects = 1 power supply = 1 (tuner = 1) with no gaps, that's 6 spaces (tuner = 7), maybe a couple for vents, 8 spaces or so. then make it a 2" shockmount, or if you want a junk drawer, could get real big real quick. i'd say 8 spaces max, the cae and vht could be the heart of your sound, but e-mail other cae 3+se users for fav power amp combos with it. pooped for now, will think and reply later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beagle1 Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 I don't know about "quaint"...I mean Hetfield from Metallica and Petrucci from Dream Theater have been using Triaxis for years. IMHO it is still a really nice preamp even some 12 years after it was first released. It's really flexible, but just won't do the Marshall thing like some others. The CAE 3+ has 3 really nice channels, but for sheer sonic versatility the Egnater M4 really cannot be beat IMHO. Check out all the different modules you can stuff into it: http://www.egnater.com/modules.htm In addition, Randall makes a poweramp called the RT2/50 that was designed by Bruce Egnater. You can use 6L6 tubes in one channel, and EL34's in the other, then MIDI switch between the two depending on which of the modules you are using in the M4 preamp. There was a recent thread on the Hugeboard racks forum where they were comparing the CAE and Egnater pre's. You might want to check it out: Bogner Fish -vs- Egnater IE4 -vs- CAE 3+SE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Mr. Ten, I will definately do more research into the CAE preamp, the 580 seems to be a bit out of my range. Also, what about splitting the rack into 2 different units like the preamp and power amp in one and tuner, effects, midi switcher or something in one. I guess that wouldn't really work because I would need to have cords going between them for the midi and power- so I guess probably just one huge rack that looks impressive but is a pain to move. Beagle1, So, the Triaxis is excellent except for the lack of Marshall? So another vote for the CAE. Between the Randall and Egnater, which is better? That question goes for everyone. Thanks for the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Hey there, definitely look into the egnater, it's been getting rave reviews as well. as far as splitting things up into two racks, that can work fine as well, would make for a more modular setup in a sense... put the preamp and power amp in one rack, either 4 or 6 spaces worth, and the power supply, tuner, and effects in the other, probably another 4 to 6 spaces. you could either build (or have them built) patch boxes where, for example, the cables terminate inside the racks. for example, if you were using the 3+ and a stereo power amp, you could make a box with several inputs, being labeled: guitar - in tuner - out preamp footswitch - in amp - left speaker / 8 ohm amp - right speaker / 8 ohm 3-prong power - power amp 3-prong power - preamp that's just a sample box, can probably make it with locking 1/4" jacks in a project box. parts can be found at mouser.com. attached is a pic of a sample from petrucci's old rig, only shows 1/4" jacks. plus, by placing the power supply (furman), tuner, and effects in a separate rack farther away from the pre and power, the noise could be lesser, would just have to resolve grounding issues differently. lonnie is a pro at this, he's in paris though. also, to make things with the 3+se midi-able, you can use the axess cfx4 to control the preamps channels: http://www.axess-electronics.com/ They also offer pre-made cables to fit the 3+ so midi is a snap with that, a $100 or so add-on as far as making the preamp midi. couple it with your rack effects unit, and depending on how many presets or instant access functions you need, a good midi controller, and this is starting to sound like a pretty pimp rig. i think you should pay me to buy everything and put it together for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dramius Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 I have the Randall RM4. Between Randall or Egnater, it might be a matter of taste. I've not heard the Egnater modules yet, but some people swear by em. I've been plenty happy with my Randall modules, but I want more! I use the RT2/50 poweramp. Keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 So, two racks are doable. About the modules, are they digital, tube? Is the pre-amp tube and these are some kind of circuit boards utilized? I am a little confused about the whole module thing? Can you midi switch between modules? I think maybe something without modules would be simpler? The CAE gets good reviews, is it midi switchable with the banks of presets and whatnot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by WonderMalcolm The CAE gets good reviews, is it midi switchable with the banks of presets and whatnot? The CAE preamp is basically a 3-channel amp that you set and forget, it's basically like tearing the power section of an amp and rackmounting it. And with the reviews it gets, it's probably that good. There are no banks of presets or anything digital. Turn it on and choose between channels 1, 2, and 3. That's it. A preamp that responds well to a guitar's volume knob is damn good. I know the feeling of wanting to preset so many sounds and midi-stomp through them all, but if the preamp responds well to your pickup config and volume knob, that's reason enough. Modules = You buy the preamp and choose whatever module units you want and plug them in. Another set and forget method really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dramius Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by WonderMalcolm So, two racks are doable. About the modules, are they digital, tube? Is the pre-amp tube and these are some kind of circuit boards utilized? I am a little confused about the whole module thing? Can you midi switch between modules? I think maybe something without modules would be simpler? The CAE gets good reviews, is it midi switchable with the banks of presets and whatnot? The modules are tube, no digital. You can midi switch between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by Dramius The modules are tube, no digital. You can midi switch between them. meaning you can choose 1 of 4 channels at any time, in a sense, but nothing is bankable, no midi presets, changes, nothing but choose the modules. not tonally, but it's like a cae 3+ se but with an extra channel, and you choose which channels to install. think of it as a car with 4 different drivers, you choose which driver at any given point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 I see. For some reason I am hung up on wanting MIDI switchable banks of sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members leadfootdriver Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 I didn't read all of the post', but I assume that you already have some kinda' amp already. So, what I would do is start off with some effects; that is, if you want to go with a digital effects box like a Lexicon, TC electronics, ect...There's so much that you can do. But I would start there, and get a cheap power conditioner, with some lights. That will start a foundation for your setup. My gig is simple, but you can have a mess of stompboxes in a rack, and access them through a switcher. Lots of things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by WonderMalcolm I see. For some reason I am hung up on wanting MIDI switchable banks of sounds. the more features, bells, and whistles, the less tone... to SOME extent. the triaxis sounds best as an addendum to something else IMO, can work as a standalone, but i didn't think it to be satisfying enough in the LONG run. maybe it will work for you though, allow you to better traverse the styles and groups you mentioned, i've played it several times, haven't owned it, can sound pretty golden sometimes. leadfootdriver's rack is simple and pretty much how i imagine yours looking, except the added gap is yours to call, not sure if you will weave in the loops of pedals like we've mentioned before. i bought a furman with no lights, never use them, don't care, and place it near the bottom of the rack to keep it away from everything else, less noise, would rather have the power cables floating down, wall warts don't fall, etc. here's a pic of my rack that's under construction. the rx-1 (silver) is not mounted yet because i have to adjust the internal trimmers and switches before sealing it up, no pedals seated either, locking shelf extended as an example. the rack is basically a utility to my amps, powering and wiring up the effects in loops, providing a tuner, splitting my signal, all in a "i can't carry this by myself" 16-space rack that seats on top of my head case. i don't care, in the situations i play in, there are always people around. and once i start moving things regularly, a trailer will be around. in all, if you want quick answers and decisions made, here you go. this isn't really modern so there should be people out there that have this exact setup if you need opinions on the tone and longevity. i wouldn't say spend too much on the rack fx, they are hit or miss for people. demo them first! rack #1 (4 spaces) mesa triaxis (gap) mesa simulclass 2:90 rack #2 (4 spaces) korg tuner lexicon mpx g2 (gap) furman power conditioner If anything, if you wish to add spaces to the second rack so you could add pedals and power for those and a looper, make the second rack 8 spaces. That's what it takes. You can get thinner shelves than mine but mine are heavy duty and are one-rack-space thick in construction, typical pedals require two-spaces of rack clearance, larger ones need 3 (like a H&K replex, which I won't get). anyways, think, respond, wish, talk, later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 I think I am starting to get a grasp on the concept now. I, as you probably figured, have some more questions: 1) Someone mentioned lights, Mr Ten mentioned no lights. What are these lights and why would I want/ not want/ need/ not need them?2) What determines the overall wattage of my setup? Is it the power amp, pre amp, or both? I think I will end up with something along the lines of TunerEffects Processor (Probably a TC because they are reported to have the best choruses, and Eventides are a little expensive, although maybe I am overlooking a lesser expensive one)Pre-amp (Probably the CAE or Triaxis, I just can't see spending the money on an Engl 580, maybe upgrade in a few years)Power-amp (either a VHT or Mesa most likely, type depends on answer to question number 2 above)Power Conditioner (depends on answer to question number 1 above) Maybe if I decide to add in some pedals add a MIDI switcher, but I am not big into getting the exact sound of a '59 Fuzz Tone or anything like that, I just like good quality ambient kind of effects like reverb/chorus/delay and I think the effects processor is perfect for that. I don't need any special unit to MIDI switch, right? Just a system like the Ground Control Pro and the effects processor, right? So I think I am slowly starting to figure this out. I just want to say thanks again for everyone's help, especially Mr Ten! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 i chose no lights because i never use them, but almost everyone has them on their power conditioner because they help you see if the stage is dark. i didn't care, i like the look without. if it really came down to it, i'd say get it with the lights, you may regret it. wattage = poweramp... -vht 2:50:2 means 50 watts per side -2:90:2 = 90 per side -mesa simulclass 2:90 = 90 per side -mesa rectifier stereo 2:100 = 100 per side ...and remember a 100 watt head powers two 4x12 cabs pretty well but i wouldn't get a 50w per side amp, the bigger ones are only a little more, same size, etc. wattage can vary SLIGHTLY based on the tubes in 'em, may as well get what's more upward mobile. tc g-force is about 1400, eventide eclipse about 1800, lexicon about 1200, g-major about 500, other models out there, as long as you get one with a display and midi, you're ok. if you favor your choruses over reverb and delay, go TC, i think you'd be more happy in that direction, unless you demo and feel the eventide or lexicon, find a deal, etc. no sense in dumping half your budget on the engl, spend it on other toys. i'd say the cae but you may be longing for the triaxis. are you anywhere near a GC that has one on the floor? triaxis, cae, you'd be happy with either one, probably more so with the triaxis if "pegging" tones is not essential. tuner = expensive but korg is the rack way to go, haven't seen much else. they're like 200-250. rough costs, i'll estimate high... 4 space rack shockmount = 150 (x2) korg tuner = 250 triaxis = 1400 (?) effects = 1500 power amp = $1300 power supply = 200 midi footcontroller = 300 cables and extras to hook it all up = 200 roughly... 5500, shave some off if you walk into places, haggle with a cash deal, find special prices, etc... but those are decent estimates on new gear. the same rig with the cae will be a couple hundred of a diffference, and you have to wait a WHILE for it to show up, cae is slow. buy my ground control pro, still has the plastic on it. any more questions or thoughts, fire away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tom Manning Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by WonderMalcolm 1) Someone mentioned lights, Mr Ten mentioned no lights. What are these lights and why would I want/ not want/ need/ not need them?2) What determines the overall wattage of my setup? Is it the power amp, pre amp, or both? 1. Some power conditioners have lights that you sort of pull out and it'll allow you to see the controls on your rack on a dark stage more easily. They're not vital. 2. Power amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sp_spaceboy Posted March 17, 2004 Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by Mr Ten Heck no! That may be the price of the 530 preamp, but the 580 tube/midi pre lists in the US for like 3K and goes for like 2400 or so. yeh, i must've been thinkin of the 530... lol i'm not being much use in this thread am i... but i can say that you'll probably halve Mr Ten's quote if you go ebay. obviously there's always a slight risk, but with some patience and care you could be saving about $2000!!! oh yeh - and why does everyone always ignore my posts...? are they completely incoherent? ignorant? insignificant?? anyone wanna tell me the point of having a rack mounted head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 17, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by sp_spaceboy oh yeh - and why does everyone always ignore my posts...? are they completely incoherent? ignorant? insignificant??anyone wanna tell me the point of having a rack mounted head? I'm not ignoring you... I just don't have any knowledge to share! I think people on the road a lot rack their head because they like the sound of it and can keep it with their effects and wireless and whatever. It would seem to save a lot of time in set-up/tear down as well as wear and tear on the head. Just a theory though. Mr. Ten, I think one with the lights would be good. I am thinking, narrowing down the list a little, Triaxis for pre-amp- I think this gives me good flexibility to start off with, is MIDI switchable, and can still be usable should I choose to buy another pre-amp in the future. VHT 2/90/2 for power-amp because it seems to be highly regarded, and can be switched to low power mode of 60 watts per side should I not need all the power. G-Force for effects, like you said, seeing as how I am more interested in the chorus, this would be my best bet. Power Conditioner- Furman makes several, ranging from $50 to several hundred dollars. What are the main differences, and which one do I need? Obviously, I will get the cheapest one that will do the job, unless a pricier one would be much better. Would the PL-Plus work? A Korg tuner, maybe not Ground Control Pro. Why $200 for things to hook it all up? What do I need besides cables, or rather, what types of cable? I think what I have listed above is what I will go with most likely, although I am still open to suggestions. Thanks for bearing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members retsamkcor Posted March 18, 2004 Members Share Posted March 18, 2004 Not: http://peaveyrockmaster.tripod.com Don't waste your cash on the JMP-1 This is what Soldano says about it: http://www.musicianshotline.com/archive/monthly/qa_soldano/2002/12_02.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members retsamkcor Posted March 18, 2004 Members Share Posted March 18, 2004 yoew... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tom Manning Posted March 18, 2004 Members Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by sp_spaceboy anyone wanna tell me the point of having a rack mounted head? Probably just the fact that it's well protected in a good case and you can leave it permanently hooked up like a 'normal' rack system. If I was getting a head I'd just stick it in a nice roadcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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