Members alekke Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 rocktron piranha vs. engl E530 Could someone help me with this. I would like to buy one of this preamps but I havent tryed them so I could use a little help.Witch one of these preamps would give me the raunchyest-chain saw alike sound? I like to hear the sound of metal in sound (like I just put new strings)what are the sound characteristics of those two beasts? I play b-tuned thrash metal! meshuggah, scar symmetry... grtz from croatia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted September 12, 2006 Members Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by alekke rocktron piranha vs. engl E530Could someone help me with this. I would like to buy one of this preamps but I havent tryed them so I could use a little help.Witch one of these preamps would give me the raunchyest-chain saw alike sound? I like to hear the sound of metal in sound (like I just put new strings)what are the sound characteristics of those two beasts?I play b-tuned thrash metal!meshuggah, scar symmetry...grtz from croatia! I'd say go E530 or, preferably, Solid State if you want chain saw tone. Look at the Rocktron mAXE and ProGAP Ultra they are going to be more extreme/harsh sounding than the Piranha, IMHO. Likely even more so than the E530 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 pro gap ultras have dipped below $100. They are a steal. They work exactly as they should. THey have a control out jack. It has parametric pre and post mids. It would be the hottest pre out there if it had tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 13, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 is that so?I using rocktron rampage stompbox at the moment (with dod eq and boss ns 2 ) wich gives me the sound I want, but I`m loooking for something little more proffessional, something I will mount to rack, I thout maybe all tube will give me more naturalyty to the sound.Now you recomend me solid state!Two days ago one mAXE was sold behind my backs!I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 The two preamps you mentioned are worlds apart.All MIDI programmable preamps are going to have a solid state/processed sound. If you look at the schematic or look inside there are opamps, tons of caps and resistors before the signal even reaches the first tube. Tube preamps like the E530 on the other hand sends your guitar signal DIRECTLY to the first tube. Of course there's a trade off in the number of channels usually 2-3 channels max.An engineer once told me an opamp is like passing a signal through a copier. Every time it degrades the sound a bit. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 Originally posted by tats_dragon All MIDI programmable preamps are going to have a solid state/processed sound. If you look at the schematic or look inside there are opamps, tons of caps and resistors before the signal even reaches the first tube. This is absolute BS. There is nothing inherent in the design requirements of a programmable MIDI preamp that precludes the input signal from going directly into the first tube stage as you would do it in a traditional head preamp stage or non-MIDI preamp. An engineer once told me an opamp is like passing a signal through a copier. Every time it degrades the sound a bit. Ironically, the exact same statement is true of tube gain stages, but to a much greater extent. It doesn't really matter for Guitar amps, anyway, because in a Guitar amp we're intentionally trying to effect change in the signal: we're not designing for high-fidelity signal reproduction/duplication. So, really, the op-amp thing holds zero water with me, personally. Internet guitarists are way too hung up on stuff like schematics and gear design implmentation details, etc. My favorite tones of all time have either an op-amp (sometimes MANY) or several layers of transistors in their signal path prior to hitting the first tube gain stage (think stomp boxes). Quick list: Jake E. Lee Hendrix EVH SRV Gibbons Rhoads Zakk Dime YJM Vai Satch Lynch Aww hell you get the idea. Basically, nearly every guitarist that ever mattered in rock. Here's the best advice: Use your ears. However, like I said, if you dig that super gritty buzz-saw sound I would stick with a Solid State preamp since they are really good at doing it. Like I said, either of those two Rocktrons are going to be great. I don't think the mAxe is programmable but it has a built-in BBE-like effect. Which is really going to make some ears ring. But, regardless of what tats says about the schematics, tonewise, if you are insisting on one of the two pres mentioned in the title: IMHO, the E530 tone sounds more 'death metal' to me and if it came to that or the Piranha for death metal, as cool as the Piranha is, I'd absolutely say get the E530 without hesitation because it is more gained out and gritty sounding, it really sounds a lot like it was designed for that kind of stuff whereas the Piranha has more old-skool Marshall style metal sound in it's blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 Elric, This is absolute BS. There is nothing inherent in the design requirements of a programmable MIDI preamp that precludes the input signal from going directly into the first tube stage as you would do it in a traditional head preamp stage or non-MIDI preamp. Please refer to me a MIDI preamp with the guitar signal directly into the first tube and I will buy it now. I'm not a tech so I can't speak the lingo and it's just my theory but I know what I like.As much as I love my Hughes and Kettner Access, to me and my ears, my Peavey Rock Master has a more organic unprocessed sound.You are right use your ears. Once I started using high quality cables like Evidence Audio, the processed/compressed sound was drastically evident. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 I know the triaxis has at least one op amp, but I'm pretty sure the signal hits a tube right away in the signal path.. midi is just a data format for switching. it has NOTHING to do with the signal path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 Originally posted by tats_dragon Please refer to me a MIDI preamp with the guitar signal directly into the first tube and I will buy it now. I'm not a tech so I can't speak the lingo and it's just my theory but I know what I like. I'm pretty sure the Soldano X99 does. In fact I'm pretty sure they used the famous motorized pots on it to avoid solid state gain stages ANYWHERE in the signal path throughout the preamp (i.e. no active eq, as nearly all programmable preamps have, etc). Since you'll be buying one, you should check eBay. They come up on a semi regular basis and they're a great preamp. Also, assuming your initial statement regarding the E530 is true, then I'd guess that it's highly likely the MIDI programmable big brothers: the E570 and E580, do as well. Engl can probably help determine if this is the case or if the E530 is an anomaly in their preamp line. Sounds like someone else has verified that the Triaxis has minimal but non-zero op-amp usage at the input, too. So, that may be worth looking into as well. Like I said, there is nothing about MIDI programmableness that requires solid state buffering of the input signal. That said, as you'd probably guess from my previous response, I never cared enough to research it at that level because I don't believe it's effect is significant if the device sounds good when demoed. For example, people on the net and elsewhere rip on the JMP-1 all day long due to the diode clipping stages in it, yet they ignore the fact that it's a great sounding pre. And there's still the stomp box point I made earlier, too. So you might be little rash in your dismissal of something solely because it contains solid state circuitry. Your Rockmaster might just be a better sounding pre for you than the H&K. I guess I'm lucky to be able to preview stuff a bit locally.... The original poster is in someplace I would presume to be remote gearwise if I remember correctly. (Croatia?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 Elric,You might be right. Like I said it's a theory that I came up with after trying the Piranha and disliking it. I just checked the schematic for the Engl E580 and the guitar hits the tube right away but it's $3500!!!! Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted September 13, 2006 Members Share Posted September 13, 2006 Just checked the Triaxis schem and the guitar hits the tube right away also. Theory shot. I've heard several times that the Triaxis sounds compressed compared to amp heads. It's obviously the whole circuit not just the fact that it hits the tube right away. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 14, 2006 Members Share Posted September 14, 2006 Originally posted by tats_dragon Just checked the Triaxis schem and the guitar hits the tube right away also. Theory shot. I've heard several times that the Triaxis sounds compressed compared to amp heads. It's obviously the whole circuit not just the fact that it hits the tube right away. Jun I don't think the lead 2 voices sound compressed at all. those are the bread and butter of the triaxis. they are very similar to the mark 2, 3 and 4. Actually I love my triaxis, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 14, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2006 Yes, from croatia!Even as I understand english very well you bomed me with so much tehnical stuff that I still have buzz in my head!I dont care if it is running gain thru the tranzistor or a tube, I`m just searching for a good metalic sound ala latest Aborted or earlier Meshuggah.As I realy dislike marshall sound I think Erlic convinced me to get my self the E530.Even because I can buy it new in my country, and I dont need that MIDI functions, I use only one sound that must be a killer, only now I must buy separate Noise gate unit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 14, 2006 Members Share Posted September 14, 2006 sounds like the 530 would be ideal for you bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 I got the offer to buy Pro GAP ! I have never heard that machine! What do you think? Can I pull out some of my sounds I mentioned with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 15, 2006 Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 Originally posted by alekke I got the offer to buy Pro GAP ! I have never heard that machine!What do you think? Can I pull out some of my sounds I mentioned with this? which pro gap is it? version 1version 2Ultra? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 Probably version 1. Cause he didnt mentioned anything but Pro GAP. I`ll ask to be shure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 15, 2006 Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 Originally posted by alekke Probably version 1. Cause he didnt mentioned anything but Pro GAP.I`ll ask to be shure! Those are usually available from $50 to $100 USD. Those are a killer deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 15, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 Originally posted by guitarslinger Those are usually available from $50 to $100 USD.Those are a killer deal. He is sellin it for 340 USD! what sound to expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grim Posted September 15, 2006 Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 read my review of the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted September 15, 2006 Members Share Posted September 15, 2006 Originally posted by tats_dragon Just checked the Triaxis schem and the guitar hits the tube right away also. Theory shot. It's all good.... IMHO, the willingness to follow up on your ideas and revise them when your initial theory is demonstrated as incorrect shows a lot of smarts on your part dude! No hard feelings, bro. Alekke: Man, $340 sounds like a ton for a Pro GAP even in Croatia, since as someone else here said, you can find one for Good luck on your tone quest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2006 Originally posted by Grim readmy review of the two Didnt find anything inthresting, I think Erlic was more convinsive in reviewing! Maybe thats the sound I want!My favorites CARNAL FORGE on "please...die!" album used Engl Savage amp! Belive I could get close to it with 530! Btw. what would "saturation" be on a language of dumb?I saw that on some of peavey amps and think that has something to do with tube simulation, but when it comes to tube amps it would be what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted September 16, 2006 Members Share Posted September 16, 2006 Originally posted by alekke Didnt find anything inthresting, I think Erlic was more convinsive in reviewing! Maybe thats the sound I want! My favorites CARNAL FORGE on "please...die!" album used Engl Savage amp! Belive I could get close to it with 530! Btw. what would "saturation" be on a language of dumb? I saw that on some of peavey amps and think that has something to do with tube simulation, but when it comes to tube amps it would be what? saturation prettmuch means "amount of gain" whether it cascades or not is up to you I think. dude, $340 is too much for any pro gap in any country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 16, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2006 Acording to peavey who invented that patent called "saturation" it simulates not only tube sound, but the sound of whole tube system.Just translated this from monitor magazine! So, what about that Pro GAP? Someone says it is not for metal, someone that it bites walls! Sound ala what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alekke Posted September 22, 2006 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2006 Does engl 350 needs additional equalizer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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