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scottop1972

what does a sonic maximizer do?

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what does this unit do? I found a BBE sonic maximizer for 79.00 at a local pawn shop and i see it in some of your racks.....

what does it do, how does it help the tone?

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They are great for eliminating all of those pesky midrange tones. This way nobody will be able to tell that you suck because the notes will all sound like mud. Then you can boost the low end to make your guitar sound like a tuba. This saves you from having to pay a bass player so you make more money at the gig. When you turn up the highs you get that ever so popular ice pick to the eardrum tone. The best part is if you get tired during a gig you can just crank up the BBE and drive away all of the customers. Then the club owner will send you home early.

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Quote Originally Posted by scottop1972 View Post
that is hilarious....

i take it you dont like them....

no really what do they do?
Well,

They boost the bass and treble to the point where it sounds huge in your basement. (assuming you're playing by yourself and not recording it).


If you record it, it will sound bassy and shrill.

If you play in a band, your sound will disappear into a fizzy, loud mess.

They fucking SUCK. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate BBE sonic maximizers.


Do youself a favor; take that $79 and put it in a mutual fund, mattress, jar, bank, stock, etc. After you save enough money, buy a good power amp.

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http://www.bbesound.com/technologies/BBE%5FHDS/

in reality, the 'phase realignment' of frequencies isnt really noticible. all you're really hearing is the bass boost and presence enhancement. the result being that you loose all the midrange from your sound. unfortunatly this is where most of the guitar sound is.
bit of a waste on guitar (imo) though lots of people do use them and used very sparingly they can help to brighten a dull amp or add some low end clout.
they do sound good for adding a bit of polish to final mixes though. again, moderation been the key.

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Quote Originally Posted by guitarslinger View Post
Well,

They fucking SUCK. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate BBE sonic maximizers.

+1
Waste of money and waste of time tweaking it. Don't bother.

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+1

Never use it. Great on vocal tracks though!


Quote Originally Posted by ocnor View Post
They are great for eliminating all of those pesky midrange tones. This way nobody will be able to tell that you suck because the notes will all sound like mud. Then you can boost the low end to make your guitar sound like a tuba. This saves you from having to pay a bass player so you make more money at the gig. When you turn up the highs you get that ever so popular ice pick to the eardrum tone. The best part is if you get tired during a gig you can just crank up the BBE and drive away all of the customers. Then the club owner will send you home early.

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Quote Originally Posted by guitarslinger View Post
Well,

They boost the bass and treble to the point where it sounds huge in your basement. (assuming you're playing by yourself and not recording it).


If you record it, it will sound bassy and shrill.

If you play in a band, your sound will disappear into a fizzy, loud mess.

They fucking SUCK. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate BBE sonic maximizers.


Do youself a favor; take that $79 and put it in a mutual fund, mattress, jar, bank, stock, etc. After you save enough money, buy a good power amp.
+1

and also make your sound too solid state.

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I use a 882i to make me sound huge in my basement.
Actually I only really only use it to play MP3s into a 2400 watt QSC amp.

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Quote Originally Posted by guitarslinger View Post
Well,

They boost the bass and treble to the point where it sounds huge in your basement. (assuming you're playing by yourself and not recording it).


If you record it, it will sound bassy and shrill.

If you play in a band, your sound will disappear into a fizzy, loud mess.

They fucking SUCK. I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate BBE sonic maximizers.


Do youself a favor; take that $79 and put it in a mutual fund, mattress, jar, bank, stock, etc. After you save enough money, buy a good power amp.
+1. In fact the inherent entertainment value in fire would make burning the $79 a more useful exercise.
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hmmmm....

i could hear a difference in the vids....

all the naysayers..... please tell me your thoughts on the vids. because so far it sounds great to me.

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Quote Originally Posted by separanets

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What I found in the clips I provided above was that I can do all that tricks with my para EQ. They call the BBE like a lazy EQ. smile.gif

 

+1

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Quote Originally Posted by scottop1972 View Post
hmmmm....

i could hear a difference in the vids....

all the naysayers..... please tell me your thoughts on the vids. because so far it sounds great to me.
sure, the guitar sounds great by itself, but the minute it's in a band or on tape, it's over.

I think every guitarist learns once.

mine was a USA 462 model. cry.gif

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Quote Originally Posted by guitarslinger View Post

I think every guitarist learns once.

mine was a USA 462 model. cry.gif
+1000.

I can't tell you how many guys I know fell for this. Me included. But I guess that is how you learn.

I bought an 882i but the store screwed up and sent me the software plugin along with the unit. I sold the unit, sold the plug-in after making a er backup cool.gif and made money on the entire deal. biggrin.gif

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I bought the bbe sonic maximizer plugin about a year ago thinking it would be great to use...i can't get anything to sound good with the plugin..maybe i just don't know what i'm doing which is probably the case...or it was just a waste of $100.00 which could also be the case.

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From another forum a long time ago:

Just a word of warning. Maximizers are the guitar gear equivalent of crack. The experience one goes through is identical:

1. The first hit: You hook it up and initially think "Oh MY GOD this the greatest thing EVER DOOOOOD!!!!!111!!!!1! I've found THE tone!"

2. You start using on a regular basis: Buy some model BBE, hook to rig, engage it 100% of the time. Rewrite all your patches.

3. You try to get your friends hooked: Dude, check out my rig, this thing takes it over the top!!!.

4. You go into addiction/denial: Friends think your tone has gone to sh*t but you think it is totally awesome. You start talking msinformed BS about different sound frequencies traveling at different velocities (hint: violation of Newtonian physics).

5. There is an intervention: Friend let's you A/B his non-maximizer rig versus yours in live setting, Yours sounds like over-processed dung, his rocks. He tells you, as a Bro, the BBE must go. You realize the BBE is a band aid for guitar tone and not even a good one at that.

6. You go into rehab: Another "like new" BBE xx2 unit hits eBay.

7. Regret: I wasted a sh*tload of time futzing with my rig, patches, etc, and my tone isn't any better and I'm back to square one. I Wonder what GE-7 pedals are going for these days.

Maybe you should avoid the whole thing. If you must post-process your modelling tone I would strongly suggest an EQ. It's much more versatile and will be long usable after the BBE is gone.

Yes, I'm a former user and I regret ever bothering with it.
Bottom line: Friends don't let friends use maximizers for guitar.

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Quote Originally Posted by guitarslinger

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The BBE isn't claiming to transcend Newtonian physics, they are simply delaying parts of the signal slightly. right? confused.gif

 

I don't think BBE, the company, makes that claim but many people in reading BBE's literature regarding phase shift misinterpret it, and start to make poorly stated crackhead-style claims like "different sound frequencies travel at different speeds" which is in fact a violation of our current understanding of physics. smile.gif I know that I have seen this explicitly claimed by BBE aficionados on multiple occasions. Certainly not the company's fault but amusing nonetheless. biggrin.gif Sort of like the misguided pothead who oversells the medicinal value of doobage. wink.gif

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What maximizers and exciters do is mask real nuances and replace them with artificial ones, and crank them up a bit. Different and more is better, eh? Then later you start to wonder if you like your sound. Then later you remove the gadget from the rig and realize where your tone has been hiding.

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Honestly, I regret using the BBE. I was told by a fellow guitarist that it is a must have in a rack. "I can't believe it man, you dont use a BBE, you will sound like a god if you do". Let me tell you that I had found my tone, and yes, that is impossible for lots of guys. Once I got the BBE I felt that I needed to start toying with my EQ and presets (using a rocktron chameleon 2000)...but after so much fiddling with the EQ, I LOST my dream tone and could not re-program it for the life of me. The BBE has ruined my sound and I have not been able to get it back. AVOID IT AT ALL COSTS.

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I must say that most of these posts are missing the boat in terms of what useful things the BBE Sonic Maximizers can do and where and when they should be used. I've been using my BBE 462 for many years with my MIDI keyboards, tone modules, drum machines, and recording equipment. However, I just cannot picture using this processor for guitarists who are usually already processing to the max their instrument with various other processors, effect pedals, tonal boosts on their amps, etc.

In my experience, the BBE 462 is most effective in enhancing certain or general audio signals that may often appear too flat to the ear. Forget about how it does it for a moment, especially in this case scenario where an old recording on cassette tape was recorded many years ago and sounded way too flat. My client wanted to convert that recording to CD and we had no idea if any Dolby B or C was used on the cassette recording to begin with. We also had some hiss from the tape, regardless of what Dolby or "no Dolby" setting I used. In this case, the BBE helped to enhance some of the bass tonal frequencies, rather than using it to "push" the high end.

Years before BBE, many recordings were enhanced with the Aphex Aural Exciters that boosted the individual tonal frequencies and then processed them back down again to eliminate high-end noise, hiss, etc., (sort of boosting these noises out of range before returning the bands back to normal.)

I can see, though, that using this device incorrectly could cause an undesirable mix. But if you use it where it is really needed, the result can be quite sastifactory. I am anticipating getting a BBE 482i to replace my 462 since the contour pots do collect some dust over the years.

Mark Prigoff
Digital Jazz Productions

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To me,
they can be used subtlety and can help a little..but far to many people expect alot out of them...but truthfully, to 99percent of listeners and 99percent of players could get similar results with proper EQ..which is free, already om your gear usually, and if it isnt..you never bought a good amp in the first place.
In the studio BBEs Sonic maximizer can have a tiny role..but its pretty rare. hey for 79 bucks..its not the biggest mistake you could make,ya know.

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BBE's are not designed for guitars or guitar amps.

They were designed for live PA applications only. You can buy them on Ebay all day long for $20 a pop. people are practically giving them away because they know they suck.

It boosts the lows and highs to make the crappy midrangey PA with small speakers sound bigger than it actually is. How well that works is about as good as many novel ideas that have died along the wayside including a Mole Bass booster.

If you had a decent setup to begin with you wouldnt need the enhancement.

If you use it on a crappy system, then you have a bigger crappy sounding system.

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I bought a used one on ebay after I tried the VST plugin demo long ago.

I had it out of my system for a long time, actually, I used it with my stereo (which sounded awesome).

Now that I've got my racks finished, I've got it back in my rig, on the "wet" side, with very subtle settings. But I'm using two power amps, and the "dry" side is completely unaffected, so I'm getting a blending of the two. This seemed like a fair and judicious use to me. It's not coloring my whole tone, just a slice of it. Then again, I'm a bedroom guy ...

For $79 you could do worse, and like it said ... if you don't like it in your rig, hook it up to your stereo and it will sound awesome.

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bought one, no likey, sold it....

But Satriani uses one as a staple....Vai as well...there are others. I hear that if you are in the studio, and you run your signal into a load box, they are essential. So somebody knows something I don't. Recognize, haters.

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Quote Originally Posted by 3shiftgtr View Post
bought one, no likey, sold it....

But Satriani uses one as a staple....Vai as well...there are others. I hear that if you are in the studio, and you run your signal into a load box, they are essential. So somebody knows something I don't. Recognize, haters.
I've never once heard that...

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The only good that a BBE Sonic Maximizer can do that I've found is if you use it in a PA and run your SUBS only thru it (assuming you have a cheap PA) to allow you to get a little more oomph from your otherwise lower end PA...

It's already been discussed about their affect on guitar tone - it should NOT be used on guitar...but for those with a lesser ear will often hear an "improvement" in what they think is an awesome tone - they'll learn the hard way or end up quitting before long - don't worry.

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Quote Originally Posted by jimosity View Post
The only good that a BBE Sonic Maximizer can do that I've found is if you use it in a PA and run your SUBS only thru it (assuming you have a cheap PA) to allow you to get a little more oomph from your otherwise lower end PA...
There is nothing a maximizer does to PA sound that can't be done with a 31-Band EQ. No PA should ever include one on output.

As for guitar (or even vocals): A maximizer changes sound, as does every other effects unit. Used as an effect, it can be used artistically. Under no circumstance however, should you be running 100% maximizer 100% of the time.

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What a joke!

For all you guitar-slinging metal-thrashing folk, that's right, the Sonic Maximizer WASNT MADE FOR YOU.

For the rest of the world, the sonic maximizer can be a really useful tool that does things that NO OTHER outboard device will do.

You CAN NOT recreate the sound of it just with an EQ. In contrast, depending on which EQ you use, you're going to throw your phase all over the place!. If you use a maximizer directly after your EQ, then you can correct the damage that you do to the phase and GET RID OF SOME OF THAT MIDRANGE HARMONIC DISTORTION.

It's not a loudness button. It's not an amplifier. If you use it like that, then YES, it will sound terrible. Don't use it on distorion. Don't use it on guitar. Don't use it on bass.

Go ahead, I dare any one of you to throw a sonic maximizer on your drums bus and tell me that it doesn't make the toms and the kick SING.

Buncha freakin' knobbly curmudgeony 60s engineers, the lot of ya.

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Quote Originally Posted by funktional View Post
*rant*
Interesting choice of thread to put your first post in. It was started over three years ago, and has been dormant for ten months.

Just out of curiosity, what was your username on your original HC account. cop.gif

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No.. I looked at his account. He just registered today, and is using a non-proxy IP address that is not, and has never been used by any other member.

In other words, he looks legit to me. smile.gif

Sometimes people find old threads via a Google search, or while merely browsing around the site. Occasionally one of those posts will be enough to make them drop out of "lurker mode" and register so they can reply to it - even if it's a two or three year old thread... idea.gif It happens a lot. smile.gif

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PROTIP: Don't buy the $79 sonic maximizer pedal.

A guy I know has one of the expensive, rackmount ones. Try one of these, and run it into your effects loop. It sounds amazing.

Also it is meant for us thrash metal people - I screwed with the abovementioned sonic maximizer for about thirty seconds and got a totally insane tone. I was using a metal zone, and it basically stuck all the bass back in the metal zone had sucked out.

Of course, then I was so happy it didn't sound like trebley crap that I cranked the gain way too high and had to rerecord it later.

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I have one, it has balanced inputs and outputs.


It gathers dust in the corner next to a behringer "noise reducer" which reduced a bunch of noise, when I took it out of my rig and placed it in the corner, to collect dust.


idea.gif


facepalm.gif

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The only time I ever found a sonic maximizer to be useful (except for straightening a short sofa leg) is in a PA, used to compensate for the room it's playing in. When we play out, I have a little 4-space rack with the BBE 482i, a power conditioner, and some useless junk with blinky lights. We run all the stuff to our mixer, through the BBE, and into the house mixer. all our tones sound fine in regular venues with good acoustics, but sometimes we need a little more oomph or a little less bite, depending on how the room itself is. for everything else, I find it to be somewhat less than useless.

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