Members anunnaki Posted August 26, 2007 Members Share Posted August 26, 2007 What would be the consequences of that? impedance mismatch? Tone suckage? Volume drop? Anyone knows? Thinking of running a Pro Q in front of my Vetta... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 No one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrt Posted August 27, 2007 Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 I never tried it??? just wondering why you would want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 Because having the pro Q in front of the amp woud allow me midi-controlable pre-distortion EQ curves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted August 27, 2007 Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 it might work. Most Rocktrons have enough input/output volume control to make them usable most anywhere in the chain.(except after the power amp of course.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ocnor Posted August 27, 2007 Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 I sometimes run my Digitech 2120 into the front of my Carvin Legacy. It sounds great for distortion but the clean sounds suffer a bit. I would not recommend running a preamp into the front of a solid state amp as it would most likely sound distorted, harsh and brittle [like ass]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inazone Posted August 27, 2007 Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 Running an EQ in front of the amp would be fine, or a multi-effects unit being used strictly for EQ and perhaps compression. You wouldn't want time-based effects before the preamp though. Well, *I* wouldn't anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 Thanks guys, i ll give it a shot. Any electrician/tech wants to chime in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted August 27, 2007 Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 the only issue i can see is the impedance of the rack unit being too low to load the guitar pickups adequately, making the guitar sound dull and saggy.i'd recommend having some sort of buffer between the guitar and rack unit just to be on the safe side.i've used a few racks before my preamp in the past and not had any problems aside from some extra noise.good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 Would a simple Boss pedal be a sufficient buffer? Or do I need an active buffer? I think i have one in my rocktron rack interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 Damn, i just tried Pro q > Vetta, and the noise is deafening, even while playing ! the onboard hush doesnt seem to be able to tame that...could it be the impedance mismatch problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted August 27, 2007 Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 a boss pedal would be an active buffer. a good one? up to you really the noise is most likely due to the unit being designed to run on much much higher level signals than a guitar, thus putting out a lot higher signal. its all about the signal to noise ratio. if you know you're unit it going to be run at between -10 and +4 db you can get away with a lot more you can get away with a lot higher noise floor. i hope that made some sense. i've spent all day doing paper work on a bank holiday. my eyes are burning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 27, 2007 I just tried a bypassed boss pedal before the pro Q ,same result... the noise while playing is huge. Help ! does someone have another idea for my rig? The pro Q doesnt have external input and output levels like the intellifex, only a programmable output level. I tried changing it, no effect. Damn, i thought i had the perfect solution... Is there a pedal that could convert from insturment level to line level? and once converted, can the signal go back unharmed into a few pedals before hitting the amp? lots of questions, sorry but i'm desperate. uh, kinda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 What would be the consequences of that? impedance mismatch? Tone suckage? Volume drop? Anyone knows? Thinking of running a Pro Q in front of my Vetta... Depending on the individual piece of rack gear. MOST rack gear is designed to be run at line level +4dB, while an amp input is designed, generally, for instrument level at -10dB. Certain types of effects are desired at certain places in the signal chain. ex. pre or post preamp section (in front of the amp or in the loop). The consequences could be over loading, OR not having enough signal, to your rack effects' input- from your high impedance guitar signal your preamp input resulting in a less than optimum clarity of your effect. Good question. This is the reason why units such as the Yamaha SPX90 has +4dB AND -10dB switches on it's inputs AND outputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 isnt the -10/+4db switch meant to allow the use of "professional" and "domestic" gear? pretty sure guitar level is something like -60db, mic level -20db.could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 -10 and +4 are both line level. One is pro level the other is prosumer level. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 prosumer i like that. prosumer heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 -10 and +4 are both line level. One is pro level the other is consumer level.Jun Yes, thanks for the correction. Late nights are obviously catching up with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 I was told by a circuit designer that all equipment internally run at -10db. +4 is simply an extra gain stage added in front and at the end of circuits. He actually recommended using -10dB whenever possible to avoid the extra circuitry and noise, since most gear you plug into will have an input gain anyway.I'm not an EE major so I can't vouch for the accuracy of the statement. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 I was told by a circuit designer that all equipment internally run at -10db. +4 is simply an extra gain stage added in front and at the end of circuits. He actually recommended using -10dB whenever possible to avoid the extra circuitry and noise, since most gear you plug into will have an input gain anyway.I'm not an EE major so I can't vouch for the accuracy of the statement.Jun If you are running a balanced system as opposed to an unbalanced system along with how your system signal routing is done all are points of If you'll notice on equipment that has BOTH 1/4" and XLR jacks for input/outputs for example, the Level that they run at is very different and when run with the XLR's you get WAY more available headroom and better performance from your unit, as a result of the higher dB signal available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dmk Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 iiiiiiiiiiinteresting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 I just tried a bypassed boss pedal before the pro Q ,same result... the noise while playing is huge. Help ! does someone have another idea for my rig? The pro Q doesnt have external input and output levels like the intellifex, only a programmable output level. I tried changing it, no effect. Damn, i thought i had the perfect solution... Is there a pedal that could convert from insturment level to line level? and once converted, can the signal go back unharmed into a few pedals before hitting the amp? lots of questions, sorry but i'm desperate. uh, kinda. There are so many places that noise can be entering into your signal chain from improperly shielded cables, unclean power from the AC, improper ground of the guitar (pickups, switch, jack) cold solder joints etc... wall wart transformers too close in proximity to your cables etc... Buffers can have there own inherent strengths and weaknesses as well. I have found that with all of the technology that is being put into devices nowadays that the "potential for greatness" is definitely here, BUT the routing of all of it, and the controllability of all of it, can cost as much or more than the effects gear itself, and when trying to save a buck here and there it's a hit or miss scenario with regards to the most efficient, noise free, and flexible choices being required. What amp, guitar/pickups, gear (pedal and rack) and signal routing chain are you currently utilizing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 28, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 For this experiment i'm only using :Ibanez custom with EMGs > Boss pedal bypassed (any will do) > Pro Q > Vetta > Rocktron cabs. Without the pro Q the signal is perfectly noise-free.I suspect it's the level difference between the guitar and the pro Q that's the culprit here. Hence my question about boosting my guitar level to line level before entering the chain. But can pedals handle a line level? The definitive system will be as above, only with several pedals and a rack in the loop of the Vetta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zachman Posted August 28, 2007 Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 For this experiment i'm only using :Ibanez custom with EMGs > Boss pedal bypassed (any will do) > Pro Q > Vetta > Rocktron cabs. Without the pro Q the signal is perfectly noise-free.I suspect it's the level difference between the guitar and the pro Q that's the culprit here. Hence my question about boosting my guitar level to line level before entering the chain. But can pedals handle a line level? The definitive system will be as above, only with several pedals and a rack in the loop of the Vetta. Run the line out of your Vetta into your Pro Q then out of your Pro Q into your FX return of your vetta. Depending on the Boss pedal, if a chorus or delay run in the loop of your Vetta, if an overdrive run in the input of your vetta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anunnaki Posted August 28, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2007 No no no, i want the pro Q to EQ the sound before it hits the preamp ! using the fx loop is no good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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