Members Thrice_removed Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Now of course some you will just say - you can't, and thats fine, it may be true. However I am curious as to what would work best to coax the best tone possible out of a POD X3. Some say it works best with a tube poweramp into a guitar cab. Others say it works best into a powered monitor. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members El Grinder Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 The VHT Valvulator I, a unity gain, tube-based buffer, should help the POD get the best input tone from your guitar. http://www.vhtamp.com/frames.html From VHT's Valvulator I FAQ: Can the Valvulator 1 improve the sound of digital and modeling devices?Top The answer to this question is a resounding Yes. But to understand why, you need to understand a little bit about how digital devices work. Digital effects and modelers take an analog audio signal (your guitar signal for example) and convert it to digital information before the actual processing or effecting takes place. Once your signal has been converted to digital information, not much can be done. However, all digital effects and modelers have solid-state analog input stages and most of these have fair to mediocre frequency response and very low headroom. Headroom (the maximum amount of signal level an audio circuit can handle before overload) is directly related to the operating voltage of the entire unit. Since most digital and modeling effects operate at very low voltage (typically between 6 to 12 volts), it is very easy to overload the analog input stage causing a flat artificial tone. This is where the Valvulator 1 comes in. Because of the high operating voltage of the tube input stage of the V1, the headroom is also very high. So plugging into the V1 first produces a dynamic, rich sounding audio signal, which is then routed to the digital effect. Your guitar signal, along with the sparkle, tone and punch of the V1 tube stage is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bobvex Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 throw it out a 13th story window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bobvex Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 just kidding. i use a VHT 2-50-2 and it sounds huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrice_removed Posted October 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Yeah I should have put in the first post that I was thinking about coupling it with a Mesa 2:90 - anyone know about how much they go for on the 'bay? Bobvex - do you have any clips - I have yet to hear the POD with any tube poweramp. If not do you know where I could find some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members starsnuffer Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Put it in the loop of a good tube head. Bypass the FX loop of said head. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bobvex Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Yeah I should have put in the first post that I was thinking about coupling it with a Mesa 2:90 - anyone know about how much they go for on the 'bay?Bobvex - do you have any clips - I have yet to hear the POD with any tube poweramp. If not do you know where I could find some? no i don't, i haven't played in about a year, just getting back into it, and don't have anything to record it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members El Grinder Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Yeah I should have put in the first post that I was thinking about coupling it with a Mesa 2:90 - anyone know about how much they go for on the 'bay? http://prepal.com/data/MesaBoogie.htm You're looking at roughly $724 on eBay for a 2:Ninety, give or take depending on condition and timing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tats_dragon Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Recently played a first gen POD thru a Peavey Bravo tube combo's efx return with a Tonker. Best I've ever heard a POD. This POD direct is a POS. Jun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hjcooper Posted October 5, 2007 Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 "Since most digital and modeling effects operate at very low voltage (typically between 6 to 12 volts), it is very easy to overload the analog input stage causing a flat artificial tone" So I don't think high output pickups are a good idea, actually. And I've read others report that high output pickups caused problems with their PODs (clipping or something like that). If I read it right, the Valvulator is used to improve sound quality, not boost the signal. If I already have a real guitar cab and speaker (closed back 4x12 or ported 2x12 with v30's, for example) I would turn off the cab sims. You don't want to run a simulation of a thing through the real thing. Just use the real thing! If you don't have the real thing then it will sound best with cab sims on and through a relatively flat frequency response monitor or PA system. When using cab sims through a monitor or PA system people say it's fairly easy to get the headphone/recording sound similar to the live sound. Your duplicating the same signals, basically. If you use real guitar cabs and speakers, you have the cab sims off so it's much harder. You generally have to have two sets of patches - one set tweaked for live and another set for direct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrice_removed Posted October 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 5, 2007 Yeah but is the Valvulator buffer really worth $250??? Couldn't I just use low output pickups and watch my signal output at the guitar? I mean I have an Epi Les Paul Classic, so I don't think I am putting out a ton of signal - and $250 is quite a lot of money. Any ideas on good poweramps that are cheaper? I am sure I would love the 2:90 - but I don't think I will have the cash - especially if I am going to shell out $250 for the valvulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members El Grinder Posted October 6, 2007 Members Share Posted October 6, 2007 "Since most digital and modeling effects operate at very low voltage (typically between 6 to 12 volts), it is very easy to overload the analog input stage causing a flat artificial tone"So I don't think high output pickups are a good idea, actually. And I've read others report that high output pickups caused problems with their PODs (clipping or something like that). If I read it right, the Valvulator is used to improve sound quality, not boost the signal. Point taken... Care should definately be taken to not overload the POD's input stages, but depending on cable length, getting a strong enough signal to the front end is important. Most EMG pickups have gain trim pots if I'm not mistaken... However, since the rig in question will be using an Epiphone Les Paul, it doesn't sound like active pickups are an issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wicker.man Posted October 6, 2007 Members Share Posted October 6, 2007 I've just tried my POD XT Live through my Sonic Maximiser into my Peavey Classic 50/50 and 1960A cab. I haven't done any tweaking of settings and the POD is still set for direct out. It sounded OK, not great, just OK. I'll try making some changes to the settings (turn cab sims off, change output setting etc) and see if that makes it any improvement. I might also try combining it with my rack pre-amp (JMP1) in the second input of the Peavey.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brandon9271 Posted October 7, 2007 Members Share Posted October 7, 2007 how about using a tube preamp in front of the pod? you can get one of them for $100 EDIT: heck, it looks like you can get a decent tube pre for $29! ART Tube MP Studio is supposed to be pretty good. Art, Studio Projects, Behringer and a few others make preamps in the 50-$100 range which I bet would probably work just fine for warming up the Pod a bit.. I'll probably get one for my Boss GT-Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hjcooper Posted October 7, 2007 Members Share Posted October 7, 2007 how about using a tube preamp in front of the pod? you can get one of them for $100... Been there, done that with a PreSonus Bluetube. No joy. Even changed out the crap 12AX7 for an Amperex 12AU7 to try to really warm it up. So subtle I'm not sure it was really doing anything actually. Sold the Bluetube. I think a tube power amp would do more. Haven't tried it yet but I'm going to as soon as I decide on which to buy. In the meantime, I'm gonna try it through my Mosvalve. Should be a nice improvement over my Flextone II Plus's built-in cheapo power amps (there's one for each of the 2 speaker outs, I believe). I also KNOW that a real guitar cab and speaker make a huge improvement (with cab sims off). I recently got my 2 Earcandy 1x12 ported cabs, one with the GreenMachine (NICE) and one with the Clone. Yeah, much mo' betta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hjcooper Posted October 7, 2007 Members Share Posted October 7, 2007 I've just tried my POD XT Live through my Sonic Maximiser into my Peavey Classic 50/50 and 1960A cab. I haven't done any tweaking of settings and the POD is still set for direct out. It sounded OK, not great, just OK. I'll try making some changes to the settings (turn cab sims off, change output setting etc) and see if that makes it any improvement. I might also try combining it with my rack pre-amp (JMP1) in the second input of the Peavey.... Definitely turn OFF the cab sims. It'll be like taking a blanket off your speakers. 'Cause think about it, in the real world you don't mic a guitar cab and then run that out through another guitar cab. And revisit your tone controls. The presets seem to be set for bedroom levels and suck anyway so need adjusted. If you're playing loud you need to lower the bass and treble and drive. If you play bedroom level and also gig level you need seperate presets for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brandon9271 Posted October 7, 2007 Members Share Posted October 7, 2007 yeah.. I think maybe its my Vintage 30 4x12 that's coloring my tone in a negative way (maybe). I really wanted to try out the Eminence Legend Modelling speakers but now they are discontinued.. Oddly enough I have my Boss Gt-Pro set for Direct Mode with cab sims ON and that seems to sound best so far. I'm going in the Return on a Dual Recto.. It doesnt make sense but thats how I got it set up. Maybe I need something like a Carvin Ts100 into a Vetta Cabinet... They have "modeling" speakers in them right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wicker.man Posted October 8, 2007 Members Share Posted October 8, 2007 Definitely turn OFF the cab sims. It'll be like taking a blanket off your speakers. 'Cause think about it, in the real world you don't mic a guitar cab and then run that out through another guitar cab. And revisit your tone controls. The presets seem to be set for bedroom levels and suck anyway so need adjusted. If you're playing loud you need to lower the bass and treble and drive. If you play bedroom level and also gig level you need seperate presets for each. I turned off the cab sims yesterday. It didn't make as much of a difference as I was expecting, but it was an improvement. I got more by tweaking a few settings. I couldn't really try it at gig volume in the house though. I'll have to schedule in some time in a suitable room before the next gig to do that. I've always kept two lots of patches - one set for rehearsals (with amp modelling, cabs, mic on so I can DI the POD into the desk) and a second set for gigs, when I use the POD for effects only in front of my JMP1 (no amp sim). I'm not particularly bothered about my tone for rehearsals, so from now on I can probably get away with maintaining only one set of patches on the POD. The best thing I did yesterday was to split my signal into both pre-amps and pass both outputs into my power amp. It gives me much more versatility and really thickens up the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scottop1972 Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 yeah.. I think maybe its my Vintage 30 4x12 that's coloring my tone in a negative way (maybe). I really wanted to try out the Eminence Legend Modelling speakers but now they are discontinued.. Oddly enough I have my Boss Gt-Pro set for Direct Mode with cab sims ON and that seems to sound best so far. I'm going in the Return on a Dual Recto.. It doesnt make sense but thats how I got it set up. Maybe I need something like a Carvin Ts100 into a Vetta Cabinet... They have "modeling" speakers in them right? spiders used celestion 70/80's. i have a pair of legend modelling speakers and i am happy with them. i am using a tubeworks mosvalve 1160 poweramp. these can be found cheap on the bay(also look at the mv962?). i like mine. I had this set up with a boss gt8. and it sounded good. so i can imagine that the pod xt will sound good too. I also wanted little coloring except my preamp thats why i went solid state. I also wanted flat response speakers/ cab. so i built a detuned 2x12 (1 12 in speaker and one empty hole) actually i built 2 with the eminence modelling speakers. going stereo is huge too. the cabs are awesome. you have got to try those speakers or their closest equivalent (call eminence) I wasnt too sure of my pre amp so i decided to get something different and it made all the difference in the world too. digitech 2120. it is an amazing machine. here is a pic of my rig. I am in love with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scottop1972 Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 there is talk of getting the best out of a modelling rig on.... pod xt live websites. google the forums. www.bossgtcentral.com that is the topic of much discussion on those sites. also look at thestompbox.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elric Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 Yeah but is the Valvulator buffer really worth $250??? Couldn't I just use low output pickups and watch my signal output at the guitar? I mean I have an Epi Les Paul Classic, so I don't think I am putting out a ton of signal - and $250 is quite a lot of money. Any ideas on good poweramps that are cheaper? I am sure I would love the 2:90 - but I don't think I will have the cash - especially if I am going to shell out $250 for the valvulator. If cost is a major concern, I would go for a flat response amplification setup and screw the tube amps, etc. i.e. Get a Keyboard amp (like a Roland KC Series amp, or if you're poor a Behringer KX1200), Self-Powered PA, or Modeler specific flat amplification system (Tech 21 Power Engine, Atomic) and run with the POD cab emulation on. Lots of people have GREAT sounding setups with these solutions. Consider an additional EQ (ideally a parametric) after the POD and before the amplification system. For me, this has been the #1 improvement... The XT series works well with external boosts like the Digitech Bad Monkey and they REALLY help the sounds, this will probably be useful as a buffer stage too if you have concerns about how hot your pickups are, etc. Thinks like the tube preamps and valvulators, are just placebos for people who just can't bear not having a tube somewhere in there, IMHO. They tend to be much more effort to get any noticeable improvement from and they're not nearly as flexible as other approaches. They do not provide nearly as much REAL improvement over a simple high quality analog stomp in front and nice EQ after. IMHO. And maximizers are a wreck. If they manage to make an all-tube preamp sound digital/processed just imagine what the hell they're going to do to something that IS digital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brandon9271 Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 thanks guys.. I've read SO much stuff about this subject that it truely gives me a headache! Just when I think I've decide what I want to do and then other options open up. I decided against full range because I really like having an amp on stage that I can mic. If I go full range than I basically have a powered monitor on stage and run direct to the PA.. I just dont like that idea.. I want to push so air into a real mic (maybe its all in my head.. ) So basically I had decided on either an Atomic or Power Engine... BUT now Line6 has two new amps coming out. The Spider Valve is a marriage of Line6 modelling with a Bogner all tube power stage. They have combos and a head version. all of which use Vintage 30s. Its been my impression that my V30 are coloring my sound in a bad way so either the Spider Valve is compensating for this or the 4 amps that it models are suited for V30 sound. Either way I'm not sure how it would sound as an Atomic "alternative" but I guess since it cost as much as the Reactor there isnt much point. BUT there is another Line6 amp called the Spider Jam which is supposed to have a 12"" and a 2" tweeter for a full range sound.. it even has a XLR for vocal mics... *sigh* so many options... I think I should just give in and buy an Atomic 212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bridrive55 Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 If cost is a major concern, I would go for a flat response amplification setup and screw the tube amps, etc. i.e. Get a Keyboard amp (like a Roland KC Series amp, or if you're poor a Behringer KX1200), Self-Powered PA, or Modeler specific flat amplification system (Tech 21 Power Engine, Atomic) and run with the POD cab emulation on. Lots of people have GREAT sounding setups with these solutions. Consider an additional EQ (ideally a parametric) after the POD and before the amplification system. For me, this has been the #1 improvement...The XT series works well with external boosts like the Digitech Bad Monkey and they REALLY help the sounds, this will probably be useful as a buffer stage too if you have concerns about how hot your pickups are, etc.Thinks like the tube preamps and valvulators, are just placebos for people who just can't bear not having a tube somewhere in there, IMHO. They tend to be much more effort to get any noticeable improvement from and they're not nearly as flexible as other approaches. They do not provide nearly as much REAL improvement over a simple high quality analog stomp in front and nice EQ after. IMHO.And maximizers are a wreck. If they manage to make an all-tube preamp sound digital/processed just imagine what the hell they're going to do to something that IS digital. Valvulator can clean up a nasty pedal chain, that's about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hamer95USA Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 Yeah but is the Valvulator buffer really worth $250??? Couldn't I just use low output pickups and watch my signal output at the guitar? I mean I have an Epi Les Paul Classic, so I don't think I am putting out a ton of signal - and $250 is quite a lot of money. Any ideas on good poweramps that are cheaper? I am sure I would love the 2:90 - but I don't think I will have the cash - especially if I am going to shell out $250 for the valvulator. Hey Thrice_removed, I bought a used VHT Valvulator I tube buffer/power supply for $90.00 from The Gear Page. Look around if you're serious about getting one. I wouldn't pay more than $130.00 used. Guitar George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hamer95USA Posted October 9, 2007 Members Share Posted October 9, 2007 Point taken... Care should definately be taken to not overload the POD's input stages, but depending on cable length, getting a strong enough signal to the front end is important. Most EMG pickups have gain trim pots if I'm not mistaken... Hey El Grinder, EMG pickups do not have any gain trim pots. You're making an untrue assumption. Go to the EMG website and learn about them: www.emginc.com Guitar George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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