Members Bajazz Posted September 14, 2008 Members Share Posted September 14, 2008 The fact is that some people can sing naturally, some can sing with training, some can sing around a campfire and some, no matter how hard they try and hor much training they have, simply don't have the ability to match the note they hear to a note produced out of their larynx. There are people with disabilities who can never learn how to sing. There are those who just aren't wired that way, not from differences in physicality, but just in their brains.I have never heard of, met or seen anyone having much training and not getting better. Well, you can probably claim the opposite, but let's the audience decide, so I ask: If there is anyone out there who have trained hard for years who didn't learn to sing, raise your hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted September 14, 2008 Members Share Posted September 14, 2008 I never called anyone a jerk, think that was someone else.....Otherwise, you cleared up a couple of misunderstandings from my side, please forgive my english. You'll notice I'm from Norway.I also agree with you at certain points, but I think you are pretty much talking about your subjective taste how singing should be. There is much difference in sugercoating and constructive advice. When you say to a person he/she needs to do a lot of work on pitch accuracy or develop his/hers tone, I can't see how that would be sugarcoating. Helpful motivation doesn't hurt either. We are humans and throwing a nice word makes your day a bit brighter. Very true, so true. My stance is anyone can sing, how well (to me) depends on taking criticism, and basically channeling it to a motivated outcome...I am a happy go lucky fart, seriously. I've been subjected to cruel and unusual judgment, so that's why I'm a little verbally honest than most. Cheers... if you have a sec take a listen to something.Anything you say good or bad I'll appreciate: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=868853&songID=6891207 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members loveyourstarfish Posted September 15, 2008 Members Share Posted September 15, 2008 Flemtone, you seriously have no idea what you are talking about. As someone who has taken lessons for awhile, and who has sucked immensely starting out (but had a good natural voice), it is complete bull{censored} to say anyone can't sing. Everyone has a voice, everyone speaks. Therefore, everyone has the ability to sing. No singer started off singing Pavrotti the second they opened their mouths trying to sing, just like no guitarist played a Van halen solo the second they picked up a guitar. If you want to get better at something, you need to practice (at the right things). Some people are born with a better natural understanding whether it be guitar, singing, skiing, whatever. But to say anyone cannot sing is not an opinion. You're trying to state it as a fact when it is the complete opposite. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Flemtone, you seriously have no idea what you are talking about. As someone who has taken lessons for awhile, and who has sucked immensely starting out (but had a good natural voice), it is complete bull{censored} to say anyone can't sing. Everyone has a voice, everyone speaks. Therefore, everyone has the ability to sing. No singer started off singing Pavrotti the second they opened their mouths trying to sing, just like no guitarist played a Van halen solo the second they picked up a guitar. If you want to get better at something, you need to practice (at the right things). Some people are born with a better natural understanding whether it be guitar, singing, skiing, whatever. But to say anyone cannot sing is not an opinion. You're trying to state it as a fact when it is the complete opposite.Cheers In other words and like I said.... Flemtone theory debunked... This post was RIGHT on the money: "Some people are born with a better natural understanding whether it be guitar, singing, skiing, whatever." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Y'know, I wrote a lot of things right here, but I've decided that it's just not worth it. I've stated my opinion. If you have a problem with it, that's your problem, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sunsetcarcrash Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Flemtone, you seriously have no idea what you are talking about. As someone who has taken lessons for awhile, and who has sucked immensely starting out (but had a good natural voice), it is complete bull{censored} to say anyone can't sing. Everyone has a voice, everyone speaks. Therefore, everyone has the ability to sing. No singer started off singing Pavrotti the second they opened their mouths trying to sing, just like no guitarist played a Van halen solo the second they picked up a guitar. If you want to get better at something, you need to practice (at the right things). Some people are born with a better natural understanding whether it be guitar, singing, skiing, whatever. But to say anyone cannot sing is not an opinion. You're trying to state it as a fact when it is the complete opposite.Cheers Sure, anyone can make noise come out of their mouth, but then the question comes into play "Is singing noise, or is singing pleasant noise?" Everybody can make a musical noise escape their mouths, but not everyone can make a noise escape their mouths that people want to listen to... So that part is all based on opinion... And flemtone did state that was his OPINION... Not that it was the right answer... Plus, Dr. Innovation, the question in the begining was "Can anyone learn to sing?" Flemtone assumed he was actually asking what people thought... not saying "tell me what you think so we can tell you you are stupid and wrong if its different from what we think..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Plus, Dr. Innovation, the question in the begining was "Can anyone learn to sing?" Flemtone assumed he was actually asking what people thought... not saying "tell me what you think so we can tell you you are stupid and wrong if its different from what we think..." Of course Flem didn't say that in order to call people stupid....I don't think anyone here thought that. To recap: -The OP was not Flemtone, it was fanuvbrak-What Flemtone chooses to assume is his right, and his business.-Post #17 -"I" stated ANYONE can learn to sing, anyone, basically I answered the OP's question and gave FACTS to support my position, not an opinion.-ANYONE means any one, right? Meaning chosen at random. Am I some special "chosen" being with super singing powers? ha, no way. Flemtone asked me if I'm anyone? I am. Aren't you? Aren't we all?-weebz said thereafter that you either have it or you don't.I said in German NO. -I learned, didn't have it in me all along. -Post #31 Flemtone makes his 1st post, stating he doesn't believe anyone can sing and italicizes anyone. (his opinion)-I stated I didn't want to argue but that his opinion was incorrect. Why? Because I'm just an average Joe, (anyone) that wanted so badly to play and sing-and I did it. Slowly but surely I became aware that whatever I had the motivation for, I could do it. YMMV as it seems. What happened through the course of this discussion: he laid his cards out on the table. He stood his ground and stated his opinion, fine. His opinion was countered with FACT, that is all. He took it personal. When I have a theory, and that theory is proven wrong by say someone with hard facts, I go, "oh, cool." -And then my curiosity compels to me to learn that newly found fact. As an example, I am not my beliefs, I'm not my opinions. If someone tells me my opinion is wrong I know for a fact there a possibility of it being so. Therefore I'd want to find out more of the others point of view before coming to my own conclusions. Even then I won't have a solid understanding unless presented with all facts and variables at that time. Perhaps I could learn something from it because basically that's what I want. To learn from others who share a common curiosity with questions such as these, and have a group discussion about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sunsetcarcrash Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Im sorry if it seemed like i was saying that Flemtone was the OP... I knew it wasnt him... I guess i didnt check to make sure that was clear... I just dont know how you decided that you didnt have it in you... and how you believe that you proved him wrong with a fact... For all you know you could have had it in you to be one of the greatest singers ever... I guess my argument is that you have no hard facts either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Recording yourself is an amazing approach to learning how to sing. It really did wonders for me. Another thing that helped alot is having a mentor. I have a friend that played in a duo that was an amazing lead singer. I paid very close attention to how he delivered lyrics and the juice he would screw on his delivery. One thing that i found out was key,, was smile when you sing. It gets your lips out of the way and you can hear the words better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby D Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 If your goal is to be a professional singer of opera or classical music the physical and creative requirements are very high, and most of us won't be able to reach them. Musical theatre offers more opportunities, but it's still very demanding of special physical and creative abilities. These can often be developed with a good teacher and a lot of time. Concerning pop, rock and country singers, there's a different set of criteria. Singing on pitch is essential, but only a tiny percentage of all people totally lack that ability. (In 30 years of teaching I've never had a student who couldn't learn to sing on pitch.) It's simply a matter of coordination between the creative mind and the physical equipment (vocal cords, diaphragm, etc). In other words, for most people, singing on pitch can be learned, and it doesn't take years. For those of you who have occasional pitch problems, there are usually just two reasons for this: First: You're not singing correctly (breath control, support, straining into the higher notes, etc.). In this case find a good teacher. You probably won't solve those problems by yourself. And the second reason is you are not thinking ahead. Too many singers rely on their physical ear to gage their pitch, quality and interpretation as they are singing. The great singers have learned to "hear" what they are singing before they sing it. Notice how a fine tennis player, golfer or diver stands silently for a few seconds before they act. What are they doing? They're mentally serving, hitting the ball, or going through the complete dive before they actually do it. Think ahead (it only takes a millionth of a second) and then follow through with what you've just created. As you become more aware of doing this your pitch will improve. It has to. To sum up: if you have healthy vocal equipment, lungs muscles and diaphragm and normal coordination you can develop a good singing voice. But, what you do with it is another matter. Al Koehn I would agree with Al totally on this. I was always a half-assed singer, but after some lessons with Al and some work on my voice using his old cassette tapes, it improved my voice a LOT. I am never gonna be a "great" singer -- but I am good enough that I can do solo acoustic gigs, and easily handle singing 1/3 or 1/2 of a full night with a band. I think most people can be taught to sing WELL. But the artistic part of it -- developing your own voice and style -- is the REALLY hard part. And that was something that Al addressed from the very beginning. VISUALIZE YOURSELF singing in the style that you want. MAKE CONSCIOUS CREATIVE CHOICES. And PRACTICE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Im sorry if it seemed like i was saying that Flemtone was the OP... I knew it wasnt him... I guess i didnt check to make sure that was clear... I just dont know how you decided that you didnt have it in you... and how you believe that you proved him wrong with a fact... For all you know you could have had it in you to be one of the greatest singers ever... I guess my argument is that you have no hard facts either Oh, I see what you're saying...It makes sense.My dad played in a band, could be genetics I guess? Then the question becomes how do people know that they are either good at something or not good? How do they know when to "quit" as Flemtone said and do something else? -Dancer analogy? Is this leaning towards destiny or fate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sunsetcarcrash Posted September 16, 2008 Members Share Posted September 16, 2008 Then the question becomes how do people know that they are either good at something or not good? How do they know when to "quit" as Flemtone said and do something else? -Dancer analogy? I personally think that this question cant be answered, because you can never know. Many people, dead or living, have never been through lessons, or even tried to sing, so how could we say for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LionsDay Posted September 17, 2008 Members Share Posted September 17, 2008 Absolutely not You can either sing or you cant, period. You might get "better" but nobody is humming your lyrics later. Not much differently than playing guitar, though with guitar you have a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orbm1 Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 My take as a musician.... yes you can learn, anybody can learn.... for me everything in this world is 1% talent, 99% work.... True, a few people with a natural pleasant voice and good ear might learn faster than the ones that are tone deaf, but still, even if you are tone deaf, but work really hard, you can achieve everything, you might not get to be the next best singer in the world, but at least tou will not suck at karaoke... So, if anybody out there wants to learn how to sing, and thinks you were not born to sing... do not do it.....or.... get ready to work harder than everyone you know, longer than everybody else, and smarter (get a instructor).... and you will succeed! Omar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted September 19, 2008 Members Share Posted September 19, 2008 So, if anybody out there wants to learn how to sing, and thinks you were not born to sing... do not do it.....or.... get ready to work harder than everyone you know, longer than everybody else, and smarter (get a instructor).... and you will succeed!It strikes me that when I started to play guitar I spent a lot of time and was jealous of a couple of gifted/talented guys who seemed to get it all for free. But pretty soon I realized that the more I practiced, the faster it took me to learn things, and someplace along the way I outplayed those magic boys. They now have guitars in their closet while I do this for a living. It also strikes me that they didn't get it for free, cause I noticed that they'd play all the time if they had a guitar in range. Now I realize this was practice, while I thought it was just show-off at that time. So at some time I got considered being talented too and was asked if it I thanked god for my (free) gift. When I gave them the amount of time put into this they realized nothing is free. Talent is not free, you need to work your ass off for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jinks Posted September 27, 2008 Members Share Posted September 27, 2008 Have some vocal practice....Nice voice come within, start with the word confident. everything will follow.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vanlatte Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 Yes. Anyone can learn to sing. ( this took 4 pages? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted October 1, 2008 Members Share Posted October 1, 2008 ( this took 4 pages? ) Well, yes:p Some people haven't been consciously aware of the fact or haven't actually been a living testament to what the OP was all about... Some people felt the urge to discuss their own personal stories and views. Should this thread have just been an open and shut case? What fun is there in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aiken Drum Posted October 2, 2008 Members Share Posted October 2, 2008 Yes.Anyone can learn to sing.( this took 4 pages? ) This is just another version of the nature vs. nurture debate. The answer is both.Yes, everyone (barring some sort of damage or defect) can learn to sing.No, everyone does not have exactly the same potential as everyone else. You see this in just about every human activity. --Aik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 Potential/talent/nature maybe cut your work by 100 hours of work, but it takes thousands of hours to be a real good singer. So it will make very little difference in the long run. The REAL BIG DIFFERENCE is that 99% of all singers don't bother to do any much work at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Silverfox Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 People who are not tone deaf can learn to sing, however natural tone is something that can not be learned, your natural voice ranged cannot be pushed upwards or downwards, that will just sound false. There's a small amount of the people that are actually tone deaf, and many can train their ears to recognize the various pitches. Frankly, learning how to sing starts with learning how to listen to the various tones and pitches and knowing when you miss them and falls out of pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 There's a small amount of the people that are actually tone deaf, and many can train their ears to recognize the various pitches. Frankly, learning how to sing starts with learning how to listen to the various tones and pitches and knowing when you miss them and falls out of pitch. I agree with this but it's not just limited to people who are tone deaf. People with an ear and no ear alike must do this as well IF they want to sing on key. Sounding poorly is just a temporary misstep. Some people have beautiful voices but haven't pushed themselves enough to sing on key while there are subjectively bad sounding people out there that do not have a nice tone (yet) but they can sing on perfect key... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Innovation Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 Has anyone seen "Minority Report?" Well, when they are touching the transparent computer screen, and move items from here to there, and so on....This is what I do inside my mind basically. What I also do is play a singer's tone inside my head (take Steve Perry for example) and listen. While I don't try and mimic his ability I try and sing the song in the manner in which he sang it in...To be frank I don't have "one" tone when it comes to singing...I can sing Heidle Vise from the Sound of Music to Without You by Motley Crue... It's just putting your mind to it.Telling yourself "you can't do that" compels you to NOT do that. I just like to keep an open mind. Could I sing Opera? Sure, if I tried. Could I sing Opera Well? Yes. I feel this can apply to "anyone" because I am just anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Silverfox Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 I agree with this but it's not just limited to people who are tone deaf. People with an ear and no ear alike must do this as well IF they want to sing on key. Sounding poorly is just a temporary misstep. Some people have beautiful voices but haven't pushed themselves enough to sing on key while there are subjectively bad sounding people out there that do not have a nice tone (yet) but they can sing on perfect key... Yeah, totally. My bad for making it sound like it was limited to tone deaf. Obviously it isn't, everyone should train their ears and they will gain benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Silverfox Posted October 3, 2008 Members Share Posted October 3, 2008 Has anyone seen "Minority Report?"Well, when they are touching the transparent computer screen, and move items from here to there, and so on....This is what I do inside my mind basically.What I also do is play a singer's tone inside my head (take Steve Perry for example) and listen. While I don't try and mimic his ability I try and sing the song in the manner in which he sang it in...To be frank I don't have "one" tone when it comes to singing...I can sing Heidle Vise from the Sound of Music to Without You by Motley Crue...It's just putting your mind to it.Telling yourself "you can't do that" compels you to NOT do that. I just like to keep an open mind.I feel this can apply to "anyone" because I am just anyone. Wow, that's some really great advice right there, I haven't actually thought of that, but I've seen some singers pointing the tone they're singing with their hands while rehearsing. Personally I will give that a shot right away and see if I get results from it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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