Powered Mixer or individual components for my needs?

[id-man]

I've been cobbing together a so-called "PA" to serve as my all-purpose practice rig, home stereo and on rare occasions live sound for a solo acoustic act. It's got a couple problems and I'm considering how to solve them most economically.

 

One problem is all my stuff is cheap or old or both. The heart of my system is a pair of Peavey 112-Ti cabs with a Crown PSA-2 power amp. I'm using an Sm58 mic into a Korg A5 multi-fx for vocals and running my acoustic-electric through a Nady 5 band parametric EQ and Zoom 504II unit. Laugh all you want, with enough tweaking I have actually gotten some amazing live sounds out of all this. Oh, there's a BBE maximizer on there too which really helps for CD playback at home.

 

In spite of it managing to sound pretty decent at times it's sure not ideal: It's real hard to pack around, the mixer and the effects unit are marginal to lame, and the Crown amp's fan is so loud it's not practical to use it for music listening at home (which is a big part of my need).

 

If I stick with separate components a quieter power amp and a better effects unit will be required at a minimum, probably followed closely by a better small mixer. But if I'm going to buy all that maybe a powered mixer with onboard effects might be simpler & more economical in the long run. But would I be sacrificing a lot in tone for the convenience? I'd want something with quality reverb effects and voice eq'ing capabilities. Other effects not too important. About the only other feature that might be nice would be a monitor feed, but not critical as this is mostly for home use.

Sorry for the long post.

Appreciate your input.

[abzurd]

Budget?

 

Will the practice or gigging need continue to be vocals and guitar only?

 

If so, sounds like all you really need is a stereo powered mixer with built in effects. There are many of those about. The stereo part allows use of home stereo to actually be, well, stereo and also serves as your monitor for live situations. Something in the neighborhood of 300w stereo @ 4 ohms should suffice for vocals/guitar only. That would be 150w into 2, 8 ohm speaker cabinets (when they are wired in parallel which almost always is the case). There are many that are 400w @ 4 ohms. That would be even better. Look for something used, but in good shape.

[id-man]

Ah yes, budget - the old snag.

Cheaper is good but only if it's got very good reverb and eq (a sweepable mid would be great). I guess my real question is which lower to mid-wattage powered mixers have superior effects? I'd want enough inputs to handle myself and a second guitar and mic. Anything over that is gravy.

 

I'd say stereo is a must. And that brings up a second question, do powered mixers ever have dual engine effects so two vocalists or guitars could have radically different patches at the same time?

 

I don't mind used. I see ebay auctions of powered mixers by Yamaha, Peavey, Carvin, Soundcraft and Behringer in my target price range of $300 to $500. Less would be great but I'd rather get by with what I've got than end up with crappy effects. Which brands or models tend to sound better? Should I hold out till I have more money? Is there like a forum darling I should be looking for?

[abzurd]

Dual engine effects

 

Sweepable mids

 

CHEAP (you've still never defined this)

 

..... you're trying to get blood from a stone here. There may be something with both these things, but it will be expensive as it will surely have more inputs, features and power than you'll be willing to pay for. I'm not even sure there is such a thing, especially in a "box type" powered mixer. I'm not really up on them.

 

If you want effects, dual 9 band EQ, stereo, 300W @ 4 ohms, 75 Hz high pass filter, 6 inputs all NEW for UNDER $200 you may want to check out THIS (Alesis Gigamix 6FX)

[Preacher Will]

i'm rather partial to Peavey XR-series powered mixers (i've got two). They have enough power for your use, decent effects, a monitor out, etc., etc. They are also built like tanks with high reliability and Peavey is ubiquitous enough that you shouldn't have to worry about support should you need repairs.

 

Here's a used one from a current e-bay listing:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41474&item=7332589351&rd=1

 

and here's one that's new:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41474&item=7332374058&rd=

 

The kicker will be your cabs. Unless i'm mistaken, the 112-Ti is similar to the PV-115, just a smaller speaker. My experience is that they are muddy: a lot of bass but little clarity in the highs and mids. You can continue to use the Peavey cabs you've got, but a future upgrade will make a significant difference in your sound quality.

[ratthedd]

$.02

 

From personal experience, I'd stay away from the Crate PX series powered mixers and Carvin CX series powered mixers.

 

I've owned both and have had my fair share of problems with them.

[Singin' Dave]

I 've not seen any powered mixers that allow you to place completely different effects on different channels - they only really allow you to adjust the amount and level of one selected effect to each channel.... However, with some of the units you have you may be able to do this prior to channel insertion....

 

I'll second the recommendation of getting a used Peavey XR series mixer, which may be a lot cleaner and handier for you for the uses and budget you've stated.

[id-man]

 

Originally posted by abzurd Dual engine effects Sweepable mids CHEAP (you've still never defined this) ..... you're trying to get blood from a stone here.

Haha, I figured as much. Ok so maybe an additional outboard FX unit will be in order if I end up sharing this rig with another singer who's voice needs as much processing as mine. I feel the sweepable mids is invaluable to coax a natural tone from an acoustic/electric piezo, but I've really got that covered for my own guitar with the dedicated 5-band parametric so maybe I can live without that too. That leaves me with clean, quiet power and the best reverb as my defining criteria. Thoughts?

 

ps, the Peavey 112ti cabs never sounded muddy to me with that big honkin Crown pushing them. Even though my volume needs are modest I think they really make good use of ample power. I think it's pushing about 270 watts @ 8ohm.

[abzurd]

I've pretty much given you all my thoughts. You've still not answered the budget question. My impression is you want way more than you can afford. There is no magic bullet. The Alesis is dirt cheap and has a pretty good feature set. Aside from that, there are 10+ other box mixers that will do the job. NONE will give you reference audio for hi end monitoring or critical stereo listening.

 

If your criteria is "bullet proof" I'd recommend Peavey. If it's "dirt cheap" and packed with features and/or overblown specs" I'd say Behringer, or the aforementioned Alesis. Somewhere in between I'd say Carvin, Yamaha, Mackie.

 

I've never heard those speakers, but have you listened to other, higher priced (better) cabinets? You may not know what your missing if you've never A/B'd against something better. Then again if you're happy with your current speakers you may not want to compare them, especially if you don't have the means to purchase the speaker that you are comparing too.

[ratthedd]

 

Originally posted by id-man I don't mind used. I see ebay auctions of powered mixers by Yamaha, Peavey, Carvin, Soundcraft and Behringer in my target price range of $300 to $500. Less would be great but I'd rather get by with what I've got than end up with crappy effects. Which brands or models tend to sound better? Should I hold out till I have more money? Is there like a forum darling I should be looking for?

 

 

Abzurd,

 

id-man indicated a price range of no more than $500.

 

 

Singin' Dave,

 

Carvin offers two different powered mixes with 2 independant effects, but I think each is a bit out of the price range id-man is looking at.

 

id-man,

 

If you must have two independant onboard effects, look at the Carvin PA1200 and Carvin C1644P. They are each over $500 though.

 

If you don't require the effects to be onboard, you might want to look into some vocal pedal effects that plug between the mic and mix board, or look for a mixer with INSERT patch capability, though I doubt that any powered mixer in your range will have the INSERT capability.

[id-man]

 

Originally posted by abzurd I've pretty much given you all my thoughts. You've still not answered the budget question. My impression is you want way more than you can afford.

I said in the initial post $200 - $500 but your impression is right on, I probably DO want way more than I can afford (or want to spend). You're also right that I haven't A/B's against more deluxe gear. The ugly truth is I'll keep spending and spending till I solve the problem to my satisfaction so I sincerely appreciate all responses as I stumble through.

 

I'm still undecided between getting a quiet power amp and separate FX unit to use with my existing mixer and cabs - OR - going for a powered mixer with FX built in. Cost aside, in theory, do you typically sacrifice effects quality with all-in-ones? Do stand-alone FX's always give more processing bang for the buck? (stand-alone power amps always give more wattage bang for the buck?). Which powered mixers tend to have the highest quality reverbs and eq options?

[RainsongDR1000]

The Carvin PA series of Powered mixers has been pretty good to me (I have a PA620 I use as a backup), they also have a new line out, the XP, that may be more to your budget. As far as powered mixers go, the Yorkville I have has the best effects I've heard. Can't have different effects for different channels, but the reverb/thickening delay setting is pretty good for all vocals. You can use your Zoom for guitar effects. I have an MP10DS, which is a 160w X 2 stereo 10 channel mixer w/ effects which will put 160watts ea into (2) 8 ohm speaker and then we use a Carvin DCM150 power amp for monitors. I scored mine on e-bay practically new for $325.00! This has been adequate for our acoustic duo at any venue we've yet to play. If for some reason we end up playing for more than 100 or so people, we can always get (borrow,rent) a 500x2 watt power amp and use the amps in the powered mixer for monitors. Our speakers are rated at 500 watts so they could take it. Realisitically, I don't foresee us having to do that in the near future. We have our 3-4 bars we rotate around and this setup has been fine.

[ratthedd]

Originally posted by RainsongDR1000 I have an MP10DS, which is a 160w X 2 stereo 10 channel mixer w/ effects which will put 160watts ea into (2) 8 ohm speaker and then we use a Carvin DCM150 power amp for monitors. I scored mine on e-bay practically new for $325.00!

I hope you mean DCM1500. The DCM150 is only $229 brand new direct.

 

This has been adequate for our acoustic duo at any venue we've yet to play. If for some reason we end up playing for more than 100 or so people, we can always get (borrow,rent) a 500x2 watt power amp and use the amps in the powered mixer for monitors. Our speakers are rated at 500 watts so they could take it. Realisitically, I don't foresee us having to do that in the near future. We have our 3-4 bars we rotate around and this setup has been fine.

 

If you have the DCM1500 (not DCM150) I'd be using the DCM for mains and the PA620 for the monitors.

[ratthedd]

Never mind... I think you meant you got the Yorkie for $325, right?

[abzurd]

Ah yes, sorry I didn't see the $300 - $500. You are firmly in "powered" mixer world with that.

 

Keep in mind powered mixers do ONE thing well, they are convenient. Aside from that, IMO, there is no other reason to consider them. They lack features, aren't expandable, if one thing breaks you're out everything else, and are often underpowered for anything but acoustic and vocal only, moderate volume applications.

 

Given all minuses, keep in mind that convenience is a very big plus. If you can live with the other shortcomings, and are going to use one for an application that is appropriate (and it sounds like yours might be) they are just fine.

 

I still say for $199 the Gigamix is gonna be hard to beat. It's new so it has a warranty, a lot of the features you want, and a few you didn't specify and costs peanuts. It sounds like your application is not going to be all that demanding either.

[dalimus-thaden]

My band just upgraded our mixer, so we have a Peavey XR684F that is in great condition that we could sell you. Here is a link:

http://www.music123.com/Peavey-XR684F-Mixer-with-Feedback-Ferret-i84181.music

 

If your interested pm me and let me know, we can work out a price.

[Craig Vecchione]

All you really need is a dual-engine effects unit and a quiet fan for the Crown.

 

$200 for a TC Electronic M300, $75 for a replacement fan, less if you install it yourself. Sell the rest of the outboard gear to pay for most of this stuff, especially that BBE......

[RainsongDR1000]

Originally posted by ratthedd Never mind... I think you meant you got the Yorkie for $325, right?

 

Yup, it was the Yorkie I got for $325. I paid $280 for the DCM150 and (2) spot monitors a few years ago. Got rid of the spots and use a pair of 10" Carvins for monitors now. It's fine for an acoustic duo.