Members agedhorse Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 (for code compliance purposes only) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by B. Adams I wouldn't climb on truss without a properly secured lifeline and a fall protection harness. By the time you strap on a $200 harness, it would seem silly to trust the rest to $.30/foot webbing. That said, I don't own a fall protection harness, because I don't need one. We don't walk on our truss, if we need to refocus we either come from underneath or bring it in. We don't have enough cans in the air to make it worthwhile anyway. When I've worked shows where fall protection is necessary, we've always had fall-arrest harnesses clipped to a taught lifeline. That's the way it is.I said I'd be comfortable climbing with webbing, not using it for fall protection. I've often tied off at the top with webbing, to give me something to attach my rope to. I've made climbing harnesses out or webbing, mostly just as an excercise. They're horribly uncomfortable, but completely safe. I never once said I used webbing for fall protection, but I appreciate your words of caution. I'm afraid of heights enough that I'm not going to use any piece of equipment that's not designed to do what I need it to do. Nothing wrong with $200 harness and .30/ft webbing. If you are climbing with webbing, are you not trusting it for fall protection? You seem to be anchoring with it, not climbing with it. Doesn't matter what you are climbing.THat said, I do use webbing for fall protection, but I understand the risks of it quite well.What should be used in any fall arrest situation is a device such as a screamer, that will destroy it's self in the event of a fall with a force of over 2 kn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members milesdf Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by ctardi Nothing wrong with $200 harness and .30/ft webbing. If you are climbing with webbing, are you not trusting it for fall protection? You seem to be anchoring with it, not climbing with it. Doesn't matter what you are climbing.THat said, I do use webbing for fall protection, but I understand the risks of it quite well.What should be used in any fall arrest situation is a device such as a screamer, that will destroy it's self in the event of a fall with a force of over 2 kn. Isnt that why dynamic rope was used in climbing? The fall is distributed over the entire lenght. When climbing truss a breakaway lanyard (screamer?) should be used so you dont get jerked too bad, dynamic rope would work if you were working with a belay system going up a tower or chain ladder. Webbing is typically used for anchoring points in climbing because it is static and inexpensive, correct? So you wouldnt want to use webbing in a fall protection system unless you have already accounted for shock absortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by milesdf Isnt that why dynamic rope was used in climbing? The fall is distributed over the entire lenght. When climbing truss a breakaway lanyard (screamer?) should be used so you dont get jerked too bad, dynamic rope would work if you were working with a belay system going up a tower or chain ladder. Webbing is typically used for anchoring points in climbing because it is static and inexpensive, correct? So you wouldnt want to use webbing in a fall protection system unless you have already accounted for shock absortion. Yup, dynamic for climbing. But, in my case, I work for a Climbing Gym, so I spend alot of time alone, on the backs of the walls, not the friendlyest place to be, usually standing on a 2x4 pinching the 2x8 studs to stay up. Use a couple of slings clipped to anything near me for fall arrest. Anything near me might be a bolt, or another 2x4 (there is one horazontally every 8 or so feet for you to stand on, I can sometimes clip to them wehre I can reach. If i'm at the top, I can clip to a rafter. The best strategy for this is just don't fall. No belay system, because, well, there's nowhere to impliment that system on the backs of the walls. You are right about the main use of webbing, it is not becaause it's inexpensive, if it were $1/foot i'd still be using it for some purposes. I don't own any screamers (Breakaway devices), so I just use a sling (webbing tied into loop). Even using dynamic rope wouldn't have much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by ctardi Yup, dynamic for climbing. But, in my case, I work for a Climbing Gym, so I spend alot of time alone, on the backs of the walls, not the friendlyest place to be, usually standing on a 2x4 pinching the 2x8 studs to stay up. Use a couple of slings clipped to anything near me for fall arrest. Anything near me might be a bolt, or another 2x4 (there is one horazontally every 8 or so feet for you to stand on, I can sometimes clip to them wehre I can reach. If i'm at the top, I can clip to a rafter. The best strategy for this is just don't fall. No belay system, because, well, there's nowhere to impliment that system on the backs of the walls. You are right about the main use of webbing, it is not becaause it's inexpensive, if it were $1/foot i'd still be using it for some purposes. I don't own any screamers (Breakaway devices), so I just use a sling (webbing tied into loop). Even using dynamic rope wouldn't have much of a difference. Obviously the epitome of safety. Thanks for the lecture earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Alot of the positions I get into, it's better to fall to the floor than get caughtby fall arrest. It's all about trust, if I get into a situation where there is a chance that I will fall, or if i'm not absolutly 100% comfortable, I just say no untill a proper system can be set up. I'm working on a new system for myself that will allow proper fall arrest no matter where I go, involving a fixed rope and a rope clamp. Once you are comfortable with what you are doing, and know what will happen when you fall, it's fine. I should have specified earlier, that I won't go above 15 ish feet without a proper anchor. I would never put another person into some of the positions that I will go into, because i've spent time up there, i've fallen, I know how to fall properly, and am comfortable with any fall that I might take. I will teach any new person that might come back to help me the proper way, and make damn sure they are absolutly safe no matter what. However, a 2x4 is more than strong enough. Any bolt i'm clipping to is 3/8" grade 8 steel, running through 2 laminated Douglas Fur 2x10's. The best strategy is always to not fall. As for screamers, I don't have any, just havn't *really* needed them for myself, as I re-tie my sling depdinging on how far i'm working from my anchor. Or use a daisy chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Edited to add I just dropped $40 to order a 6 branch, 2.5kn trip strength, screamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Ermm this is me being stupid, but what's this 'screamer' stuff? Anybody got a link? AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by ashivraj Ermm this is me being stupid, but what's this 'screamer' stuff? Anybody got a link?AS Basically it's a linkin your safety chain that will self destruct when a certain ammoun tof force is applied to it. BUT, it won't drop you, it stops self destructing in my situation after 6 folds of material have come un-sewn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Just a note that 2x4 material, being nature derived, can contain major structural flaws and should NOT be trusted individually for any kind of structural support, especially shock loading. Wood members, unless structurally certified or rated (like glu-lams) should never be used individually in critical applications since the ratings are generally for repetative member use. For example, a floor will consist of repetative joists, same for a wall. A beam will generally be structurally graded timber. About 18 years ago, on a job I was working on, a general contractor friend of mine shattered both ankles when a short 2x4 he was standing on failed and sent him about 15 feet to the floor. Now, both ankles are fused and he no longer gets around like he once did. I saw him last year and he still regrets his lapse of judgement... maybe even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Agedhorse, i'm going to send you a PM outlining what I do. I don't like to post anything but vauge details online, as I don't want anyone going 'oh this guy online does it, so I know how to do it now'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Originally posted by ctardi Basically it's a linkin your safety chain that will self destruct when a certain ammoun tof force is applied to it. BUT, it won't drop you, it stops self destructing in my situation after 6 folds of material have come un-sewn. Oh, like the "crumple zone" in a car - something to dissipate the energy from a sudden stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Originally posted by Scodiddly Oh, like the "crumple zone" in a car - something to dissipate the energy from a sudden stop. Yes, controlled deceleration. A steel cable will stop your fall buy may also break your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ctardi Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Originally posted by Scodiddly Oh, like the "crumple zone" in a car - something to dissipate the energy from a sudden stop. Exactly, but, while a screamer is single use (As in if any of the stitching rips, you have to replace it), it will still function after coming apart. When it comes totally apart, you have a full strength sling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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