One sub or two for our situation

[tonynorie]

Our band is a 5 piece basic rock outfit and we do bars with 50-100 people and also the occasional smaller wedding and corporate event (nothing big). We've got two EV 15" Eliminators for mains; monitors as well. I just ordered two QSC RMX2450's for power. My question is about subwoofers: do I go for one or two of them?

 

I'm the bass player and like low end and we will be mic'ing the drums.

 

I've been researching (and doing searches) on subs and am still unclear on such things as subwoofer placement, but right now I'm in the phase of buying equipment and would like to benefit from your experiences before jumping on a particular deal.

 

Thanks!!

[bigmike216]

Depends on the subwoofer!!!

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by bigmike216 Depends on the subwoofer!!!

Ya,no foolin!

[tonynorie]

Sure, I know it depends on the subwoofer - that's pretty obvious. But it's not useful information.

[bigmike216]

 

Originally posted by tonynorie Sure, I know it depends on the subwoofer - that's pretty obvious. But it's not useful information.

 

 

 

Add we need some more useful information from you too.

 

Hornloaded or reflex?

Single, or dual 18's?

Price range?

Active or passive?

[PJR]

If this helps.......I'm part of a 4 pc Cover Rock Band.

 

We play Primarily Clubs/Bars and Private Events.......usually 75-250 peeps.

 

At most clubs we bring just 1 sub......some smaller clubs no subs.....and the bigger rooms....or outdoor events we bring both.

 

Yorkville LS800pb's....

 

If I were you...I'd start with one....and see how that fits your needs. You could always pick up another .

 

PJR

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by tonynorie Sure, I know it depends on the subwoofer - that's pretty obvious. But it's not useful information.

I own 8 of these. www.sonicspeaker.com/18e.htm I use 2/side for clubs of about 100-300. For smaller clubs, just a pair total. Never just a single sub.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by PJR If this helps.......I'm part of a 4 pc Cover Rock Band. We play Primarily Clubs/Bars and Private Events.......usually 75-250 peeps. At most clubs we bring just 1 sub......some smaller clubs no subs.....and the bigger rooms....or outdoor events we bring both. Yorkville LS800pb's.... If I were you...I'd start with one....and see how that fits your needs. You could always pick up another . PJR

With that model,I'd get a pair for sure.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by tonynorie Sure, I know it depends on the subwoofer - that's pretty obvious. But it's not useful information.

Well,there are lots of single 1-driver sub cabs that will outperform a pair of smaller,cheaper sub cabs. So why wouldn't the actual model be useful info?

[where02190]

50-100 people require only vocal reinforcement unless you want to drive them out of the room quickly. Properly headed and tuned drums will create more than enough natural low end at a good rock volume for that small capacity room without the need for reinforcement. Same with amplified guitars (including bass). Balance yourselves onstage properly, get a grip on dynamics, and give your audience pleasing not painful entertainment.

 

Louder is not better.

[tonynorie]

I've always been an advocate of the 'louder isn't necessarily better' school of thought as well; I simply want the best sound possible. Thanks for the more recent posts as they've been very useful - especially the idea of using only one and 'growing' in to a second if deemed useful.

 

As for price, I was expecting to spend upwards of 700-800 for used subs (passive, since I think I have enough in the amp department), and since I really don't know the advantages of horn loaded vs. reflex I'd certainly welcome comments on both. Thanks once again!

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by tonynorie I've always been an advocate of the 'louder isn't necessarily better' school of thought as well; I simply want the best sound possible. Thanks for the more recent posts as they've been very useful - especially the idea of using only one and 'growing' in to a second if deemed useful. As for price, I was expecting to spend upwards of 700-800 for used subs (passive, since I think I have enough in the amp department), and since I really don't know the advantages of horn loaded vs. reflex I'd certainly welcome comments on both. Thanks once again!

I'm not talking any extra total volume,just a little reinforcement on the 45-90 range on the kick,and possibly the bass. It'll give you a cleaner onstage mix if the bass player's personal rig doesn't have to carry the room. For rooms that small,a simple pair of vented subs should give you what you need.

[tonynorie]

 

Originally posted by tlbonehead I'm not talking any extra total volume,just a little reinforcement on the 45-90 range on the kick,and possibly the bass. It'll give you a cleaner onstage mix if the bass player's personal rig doesn't have to carry the room. For rooms that small,a simple pair of vented subs should give you what you need.

 

 

I'm learning by the moment (more accurately, by the post!). Tbonehead, you conveyed what I was unable to........I want to get that little bit of reinforcement in the low range, but I don't want to blow the audience out of the door.

 

My question to you is: why do you recommend two not one sub(s) to get that kick - does it have to do with coverage/dispersion rather than volume?

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by tonynorie I'm learning by the moment (more accurately, by the post!). Tbonehead, you conveyed what I was unable to........I want to get that little bit of reinforcement in the low range, but I don't want to blow the audience out of the door. My question to you is: why do you recommend two not one sub(s) to get that kick - does it have to do with coverage/dispersion rather than volume?

Well,if you went with a dual 18" cab instead of 2 separate 18" cabs, you could get by with one cab, I guess. I mainly suggested two of them in order to move enough air at those frequencies.

[DaBender]

 

Originally posted by where02190 50-100 people require only vocal reinforcement unless you want to drive them out of the room quickly. Properly headed and tuned drums will create more than enough natural low end at a good rock volume for that small capacity room without the need for reinforcement. Same with amplified guitars (including bass). Balance yourselves onstage properly, get a grip on dynamics, and give your audience pleasing not painful entertainment. Louder is not better.

 

 

Wow, that's been my impression for the type of music we do (electric blues with one band and basic roots type stuff with the other). I don't think I've seen one of the heavies around here state it quite so clearly before, though I think agedhorse has come pretty close.

[where02190]

 

Originally posted by tlbonehead I'm not talking any extra total volume,just a little reinforcement on the 45-90 range on the kick,and possibly the bass. It'll give you a cleaner onstage mix if the bass player's personal rig doesn't have to carry the room. For rooms that small,a simple pair of vented subs should give you what you need.

 

 

Unless you plan on putting that sub next to the bass rig, the tiem alignment issues will offset any advantage of extra spl in most cases.

Proper stage balance, and a properly chosen, tuned kit, will easily carry more than adequate spl to 50-100 people with nothing more than vocal reinforcement. In fact, unless the drummer is restrained and has a good understanding and implimentation of dynamics, even that can be too loud for the comfort of the average listener.

 

Quality not quantity.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by where02190 Unless you plan on putting that sub next to the bass rig, the tiem alignment issues will offset any advantage of extra spl in most cases. Proper stage balance, and a properly chosen, tuned kit, will easily carry more than adequate spl to 50-100 people with nothing more than vocal reinforcement. In fact, unless the drummer is restrained and has a good understanding and implimentation of dynamics, even that can be too loud for the comfort of the average listener. Quality not quantity.

Ya, ya, ya. Another twisted post. Congrats.

[bassred]

There is something to be said for running instruments through the PA and turning down the overal level. We set our stage volume so we can hear each other, with a little bleed onto the dance floor for energy, the rest is handled by the PA, which has a fader that controls the overall output. I have yet to see a PA that is perminently set to 'Loud'... if you have musicians onstage who can't understand this concept, sorry for you, My band would rather not toast our ears every night, and we still want to know that the sound is full out front. Time alignment issues don't normally come up in small rooms, unless you've got your system set up badly. You could also argue then that not having the bass rig onstage too loud could solve your time issues because the sound in the house would be carrying the lows and the rig would be for the stage.

 

We bring two subs to each gig, so we can have a balanced sound and not rely on blasting our stage volume.

[2manband]

I agree that you should buy one and add a second later if you decide that you need it.

 

There are too many variables to say for sure whether you need 1 or 2. Room size, drummer volume, bass guitar amp volume, which subs, how much wattage - etc. will all have an impact.