Members oldrock Posted August 4, 2007 Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 I have a very small practice room for my kids band practice and as the amount of gear we have added continues to grow, the feedback problem seems to ge better harder to manage. So I was wondering what dynamic mics out there are known for great feedback rejection? I have been using Shure SM58s but they are no longer cutting it feedback wise in that small room even with the usual eq adjustments, etc. I was thinking maybe something with a super or hyper cardoid pattern would work better. Any suggestions? Oh, needs to be modest cost of say under $100 each. thanks in advance for any mic recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted August 4, 2007 Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 I use audix OM7's but they're $230 a pop. Instead of spending more money, it'd probably be wise to re-think the practice space. How big is it, how is it arranged, and generally what kind of volume are they pushing in there? You could try re-arranging the monitors in the room as well as the instruments in relation to the microphone(s) to see if there's an arrangement that works better for feedback rejection. You could also try quelling some resonance in the room by hanging heavy blankets or carpet on the walls, or better yet with some real acoustic dampening material. The SM58 is a great mic and isn't inherently problematic in regards to feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 4, 2007 Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 Maybe turn things down a bit? Play a bit less agressively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 Room is very small. Its maybe 12x16 with a 10' ceiling and no other option short of building another room which isn't an option so gonna have to work with the room I got. Sound dampening is a good idea but one the wife really isn't crazy about so thought I would explore other options first. Aged, I've told the boys a thousand times to play with more finese, etc. but doesn't seem to ever work. I guess it is just part of being a teenager since I did the exact same thing at their age. Was hoping to find a mic that is a little less prone to feedback as a cheap fix. I already ordered a pair of the AKG D8000 mics since they were on sale for dirt cheap and according to the literature, they are less feedback prone than most. Will see if they help but would have no problem buying another option if it would help. I've tried a number of different speaker and mic placement fixes but in such a small room with all that gear, there just isn't much to do. So if someone has tried mics on a tight stage and found some cheap ones that are especially good at resisting feedback, let me know. I'll try other suggestions too of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stvcmty Posted August 4, 2007 Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 I have never had feed back problems with Nady SP5's... That is just about as cheap as you can go. Is this a band that is going to ever go live? If they practice loud, then they are going to expect a loud stage, and that is not going to work with some sound technicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2007 yes they do play gigs although just small stuff. And yes, they do play loud but I am working on that one. mainly it is because the drummer plays loud and then everyone else has to turn up to hear themselves. I Am working on the drummer to try to teach him to play softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 I think you have found the acoustic limit. The Nady mic certainly won't help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coolwaterz Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Here's your ticket!! I've bought 6 OM7 z stock so far and there's NO mic that compares to these for crank the gain and no feedback....Period! just keep yer lips on the screen when singing... Dave Rat!!!! z stock.. all look mint to me!! and sound spectacular..{censored} if they're good enough for Vedder and Anthony what the hell??check out his blog!! awesome!! he does the sound for PJ and chilli peppers.. http://ratsound.com/ratsales/om.htm $149 all day long for these... take yer shures and go home kids!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassred Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 All I can think of is how much hearing damage is going on allready... I went through that stage with amps as big as my bed... my hearing is still very good, I learned early that that ringing was a bad thing. I haven't had my ears ring after a show for years. It's time to rethink the rehearsal area. Micing up the amps and using headphones might be one way to cut down the feedback issues... just a thought, In Ear Monitors are a great help on stage, a similar solution might help in your case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 I just might try one of those audix mics. Doesn't look like it has on off switch though and that is kinda a bummer. With that crowded room, it is sometimes tough to get to the mixer quickly. Hellinger, I could use my old beater mics from 20+ years ago. Those suckers will feedback if you just look at them funny! Seriously though, I want the kids to enjoy the whole band experience. If they want to get loud, I let them do it. Course, I insist on earplugs and we have a strict 9pm and the amps shut off rule out of respect to neighbors. Speaking of which, my younger son is in the room blasting away as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 bassred, I hear ya about the ringing ears. I was dumb and we played our guitar amps at full out all the time. Now as an over 40 guy, I have modest hearing loss in some frequencies and some tentanitis (sp). I am considered old fashioned by my boys because I insist on ear plugs during band practice. They don't like it but they will thank me later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OverdrivenEL34s Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 maybe some sound treatment on the walls could help a little and maybe some some bass traps...whats speakers cabs or monitors are being used? what powered mixer or mixer and power amp? hows the placement set up? audix om7's are great but i doubt those alone will solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 If they are wearing ear plugs, this means they should turn down IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members congaron Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 If they turn down, the drummer will be forced to play more quietly to hear them...works like a champ...self correcting volume. God bless! -Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members der oxenrig Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 If they are wearing ear plugs, this means they should turn down IMO. But... but that's no fun! THIS IS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 I got a similar situation. The guitar and bass and vocals can turn down, but no matter what I say the drummer won't turn down. So they turn up their equipment to be heard over the drummer. Then they wear earplugs not to damage their hearing. We had our battle against feedback and we've got it under control. Some Auralex foam was placed behind where the mics for singing are staged. Some more Aurelex to dampen the room a bit. Better stands were bought and better microphone clips: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/OnStage-Stands-MY325-Microphone-Clip-?sku=450365 Ringing out with a DBX 31 band graphic EQ helped but didn't tame it. Asking some drummers to play softer is like spitting in the wind. They hear the arguments but they're going to play drums the way they want to. So we know the advice of turning down is pretty useless. Finally, after my own reticence, I bought a feedback suppression machine, the Peavey Feedback Ferret. For our little room this machine finally got the feedback under control. It's like beating a dead horse here There's this resistance to the idea that these machines can do what the graphic EQ can't do. Then there's the argument that a parametric EQ will work. There isn't a parametric EQ I know that has as many variable filters as these machines. I think the resistance here is irrational, but these machines will work when all else fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 One word - HEADPHONES! Get a headphone amp and run from the mixer (unpowered out if it's a powered mixer) to the headphone amp to over the ears isolating headphones for EVERYBODY. A headphone amp has individual volume controls for each output. The Behringer one works adaquately for $100 and has 4 channels & 8 outputs. Mic the room so that they still have to learn to blend their instrument volumes. Once they get used to the clarity and lack of feedback, when they remove the headphones they should play with more control. There you go, $100 for the headphone amp and you can buy adaquate headphones in bulk for 4/$100. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members congaron Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Or even earbuds for use in iems later...since the same problem may resurface as a stage volume issue. God bless! -Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Alcohol, they work ok if you don't mind the sound quality result. It's a bandaid, and if that solves the problem for you adequately then great. For a FOH mix and a paying audience, I address the root cause first which eliminates the need for bandaids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 agedhorse, What I found interesting, amazing even, was that this bandaid sounded better than the 31 graphic eq bandaid for ringing out the system. Not only did I have that observation, but in a different situation, another musician noticed that instead of a dimunition in sound quality, ther was an improvement in sound quality from ringing out with the feedback supressor compared to the 31 band equalizer. It was like the 31 band graphic EQ was a hammer and cold chisel compared to the Feedback Ferret's surgical knife. YMMD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 Yes, this is a good place for one, but turning down will go farther in a better sounding result. That's what I ment by a bandaid. The Feedback Ferrit It's the better of two evils for this particular application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 thanks for all the great feedback. teehee pun not intended. To give a bit more info about our setup, I am running thru a 8 channel yamaha EMX512 powered mixer which puts out 500 watts per channel. I send that thru a new pair of yamaha club V series 12" speakers. I'm currently using a pair of the shure SM58 mics but have also tried a pair of the lower cost shures (PG48 I think) and they feedback less than the SM58 but sound like mush. I just ordered a pair of AKG D8000 mics a couple weeks ago on the recommendation of a guy who has worked on alot of tight stages. Still haven't received them (dang that musicians friend!) but will see if they are any better than the Shure ones. If not, they were cheap and should at least be better than my cheapie shure mics. The turn down option would be no problem for the vocals and the guitars/bass. Problem is that darned acoustic drum set. It is just too loud. I wish they made something that would soften the drums without totally deadening them. Tried the pads but they make it sound crappy. I may break down and use one of the feedback killers. I've never used them before since back in my band days there was no such thing. Is there a cheap option for cutting feedback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted August 5, 2007 Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 The cheap option is just playing quieter! Yeah, I know. It's tough for people to actually do that. One useful tool for drums are bundled sticks, such as "Hot Rods". They sound pretty good but aren't as loud as solid sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 To give a better idea of just how small a practice room we are talking about, I am attaching a link to a vid to one of the boys more recent original song vids. You can see in the vid, it is pretty cramped in there. We experimented quite a bit with different mic locations and angles and the ones you see in the picture seemed to allow the most headroom on vocals before feedback although as you can here in the untouched live vid, drums are still too loud and vocals are too soft. Any more volume on vocals and the feedback gets too annoying. Before you click the vid, keep in mind these are kids that range in age from 14 to 16 and it is an original song my older son (the 16 year old bass player) wrote so don't expect something incredible. fyi, my other son is the lead guitarist with the SG. The other vocals guy/guitarist is a friend and the drummer in that vid is the quieter of their two drummers. The other drummer is even louder. If you want to hear it really drum heavy, check out some of their other songs with the tall skinny drummer. He really beats on the drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldrock Posted August 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 5, 2007 yes that drummer wasn't quite as loud as their main drummer. This link shows their regular drummer who is louder and the overall volume is much rattier. I've tried speakers in different locations but have settled on either side of the guys angled towards camera. doh forgot to add the link: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.