Members agedhorse Posted April 29, 2008 Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 What exactly is the "box" you plan on using to convert the signal? I am still surprised that somebody will buy "junk" to save $50. It's money just wasted in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stvcmty Posted April 29, 2008 Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hi, Does anyone have any experience with the Hosa Lil' Bro 6x2 mini snake. I've been looking for a snake for a while and this one actually matches the capabilities of my current mixer. I was thinking about getting it when they had the 30 foot one, but now they've added a 50' foot snake at around $100!! How do you plan to store it? The type of cable Hosa uses may be a problem if you want to coil it. In my experience with the 20' version, it is not as flexible as other cables. The cable is foil shielded, so it has more memory of how it is stored. I would not let other people coil it up because if they did it wrong, it would take a while for me to get the twists out of it. I think coiling up the 50' version would be a challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted April 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 What exactly is the "box" you plan on using to convert the signal? Its a box I made myself. It has TRS inputs on one side for L and R channels, and the other side has an XLR and TRS for a Mono Out. It uses a passive mixing network and also includes switches for ground lift and -20dB pad. I couldn't find anything on the market that would do the same thing. I probably should have used those Neutrik XLR/TRS combo jacks for the inputs. (Although I'm not sure how "rugged" they are.) That would have been sweet, but I can never find a source for them. I found a source last night- perhaps I'll add them at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted April 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 I am still surprised that somebody will buy "junk" to save $50. It's money just wasted in the long run. Well, I had a certain amount of money for a minor equipment upgrade. Most of this was spent on Guitar and amp gear and repairs or modifcations of exitsting equipment. I'm down to my last few hundred and still have a lot of things to aquire. The snake is in the "nice to have" section on the priority list. Spending an extra $50 on that takes $50 for my "essential components" list. If I save $50 somewhere else than I can re-evaluate the snake budget. So far I'm about $250 short of what the cost of all the things I've wanted to get! Like I said it might get used 5 times a year. It should at least last long enough for me to get some funds for a better one - and now I know where to get a better one thanks to all of your comments. So far the impression, I'm getting is "It's not the best but it works." That is precisely what I'm going for! Just for the sake of interest - Anybody made thier own snake before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted April 29, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Just for the sake of interest - Anybody made thier own snake before? Yes, for all intents and purposes. I bought a used Whirlwind Medusa from Mark at audiopile, and then decided to rebuild and reconfigure it, and bought all the components from him. That's why I intimately know what goes into an EWI snake and recommend it over the Hosa. I forget what it started as, but it's now a 16x8 and 100ft. A lot of soldering and with the tedium it's very easy to forget to pre-load the wires with the shrinkwraps, strain reliefs, connector caps etc. Each connection must be tested for open, or short (since I had no idea what condition the original cable might be in) against every other conductor in the snake, just to be certain. No point in doing all the work only to discover the cable's defective. Regarding your justification....may as well wait until you've got the extra $50. It really makes no sense to be looking to eventually upgrade...buy the best possible now so you don't have to think about upgrading it later. A busted snake has almost no resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stvcmty Posted April 29, 2008 Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 The snake is in the "nice to have" section on the priority list. Spending an extra $50 on that takes $50 for my "essential components" list. A 6 channel snake is small. I would rather have 6 good 50' microphone cables instead of 1 50' 6 channel snake. Running 6 cables and coiling 6 cables is not much more work compared to running that snake. The lack of flexibility in the Hosa snake cable, in my view, will make it more difficult to coil the 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 29, 2008 Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 Its a box I made myself. It has TRS inputs on one side for L and R channels, and the other side has an XLR and TRS for a Mono Out. It uses a passive mixing network and also includes switches for ground lift and -20dB pad. I couldn't find anything on the market that would do the same thing. Are their buildout resistors installed in the mixing network? Anything to prevent phantom power from appearing on the output of the device driving the box? Some devices are not tolerant of phantom power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted April 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 Are their buildout resistors installed in the mixing network? Anything to prevent phantom power from appearing on the output of the device driving the box? Some devices are not tolerant of phantom power. I'm not familiar with the term "buildout resistor". It is used as an output device (line level) rather than an input device. I'm not aware of any line level outputs that apply phantom power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 29, 2008 Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 This is why I asked the question, the important stuff is in the details. 1. The fact that you are using this to interface from an output to an input, and that there is a 20dB pad, indicates to me that you intend to drive a mic level input. The phantom power would originate from the input of the device (mixer or preamp) that the output would see (or be driving). 2. If you are combining 2 line level outputs together, you really need a suitable set of buildout resistors, otherwise the line drivers see essentially a short circuit and distortion will increse by a factor of 10-100x. 3. Many device outputs do not tolerate phantom power being present on their outputs (from an input that provides phantom power), causing latch-up or worse. This seems to be most common with servo balanced outputs which are less than ideally stable to begin with. Other outputs simply blow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted April 29, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 This is why I asked the question, the important stuff is in the details.1. The fact that you are using this to interface from an output to an input, and that there is a 20dB pad, indicates to me that you intend to drive a mic level input. The phantom power would originate from the input of the device (mixer or preamp) that the output would see (or be driving).2. If you are combining 2 line level outputs together, you really need a suitable set of buildout resistors, otherwise the line drivers see essentially a short circuit and distortion will increse by a factor of 10-100x. 3. Many device outputs do not tolerate phantom power being present on their outputs (from an input that provides phantom power), causing latch-up or worse. This seems to be most common with servo balanced outputs which are less than ideally stable to begin with. Other outputs simply blow up. Interesting.. The intended use of this box is to interface with my powered speaker cabinet or a small in-house PA system input. What are "buildout resistors," then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 29, 2008 Members Share Posted April 29, 2008 Series resistors that prevent exceeding the current capabilities of the driving stage. There will be a ~6dB loss when paralleling signals unless they are identical. This is the nature of any ressistor summing network. You will also need blocking capacitors, 47uf/50 volt in series with the output, positive side towards the mixer or powered speaker cabinet to protect against phantom power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted April 30, 2008 Members Share Posted April 30, 2008 Just for the sake of interest - Anybody made thier own snake before? I assembled my first snake in 1978. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted April 30, 2008 Members Share Posted April 30, 2008 I made my first around the same time Mark did. I still have 5 or 6 of them and they still work perfectly though they've been rebuilt a couple of times. Probably have a couple thousand shows on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted April 30, 2008 Members Share Posted April 30, 2008 Well, if you are looking at $100 for a snake, apply patience and search eBay for a while. I was looking for another 6x30' subsnake before those Hosa's came out. Found a Proco for under $100 shipped and turned out it was really 50'. The seller never measured it ;>) Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted April 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted April 30, 2008 I think I may have found a pretty good soultion thanks to all of your suggestions!! Unfortunately, I may not have time to hit up ebay for a snake that may or may not had dead channels. I checked out EWI's "patch snakes." A 50' 8 Channel XLR to XLR Patch snake is only $90. I don't really need a box on one end to connect everything to. I just need the length. I can use XLR to TRS adapters as necessary and I could always custom make a box later. I can also easily replace XLR connectors as neccessary. These have fantails with strain relief on both ends. All this for the same co$t as a 30' Hosa lil' bro snake. Seems like a great deal to me! I knew there had to be something out there that would work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted April 30, 2008 Moderators Share Posted April 30, 2008 I just got a used 50' Whirlwind Mini-12 Medusa for $99. Built like a tank, although I've gotta change a few of the gozintas to gozouttas. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted May 1, 2008 Members Share Posted May 1, 2008 I was going to recommend exactly that patch snake as I was reading the thread. I'm using an 8-channel one almost identical to that. I bought a cheap one off eBay (probably about 3/4 of the price of the EWI) and it's nowhere near as nice. I use it for a drum "snake"; I bought eight XLR cables of specific lengths, and have them permanently attached, so I basically have 5' and 10' fantails on the mic end. I've got an XLR to 1/4" adapter on one of the cables, and an XLR male-to-male adapter to basically reverse the direction of the cable and use it as a return to my IEMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted May 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 1, 2008 I've emailed them about the availability of having them swap the genders on the "red" cables. I'll let you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted May 1, 2008 Members Share Posted May 1, 2008 I bet they'll get back to you pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gusfinley Posted May 2, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 2, 2008 I've emailed them about the availability of having them swap the genders on the "red" cables. I'll let you know... Just heard back form them: Yes, we can swap theends of the red jacketed channels so the snake is configured like a 6x2. Wecharge $1.00 per end. If you would like to order please let me know, or you can order online andinclude a note during check out what you would like us to do. I can adjustyour total when we process your order here.If you have other questions please let me know.Sincerely,Liz Hellinger I think its time to place and order! I'll just use some XLR to TRS adapters on the ends as necessary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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