Members wheresgrant3 Posted July 8, 2008 Members Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm looking to equalize the levels on several synths that that I gig with so they provide a more balanced listening experience through our PA. I play several synths in a popular cover band and sometimes patches of equal volume seem louder because of the frequency they produce. For instance a B3 Organ patch might be hard to hear in a loud mix filled with bass, drums and guitar, but horn stabs will cut right through and knock the first row of spectators right out of their seats. I run my keys in stereo, into a line mixer, to a DI and out to the FOH board. I know the first and most logical response is to balance each patch so they are all the same levels. This approach seems difficult for several reasons... #1 I use more than 30-40 different patches and samples on 4 different synths with four 4 different output levels... to painstaking go through with headphones and speakers to manually adjust each patch will take alot of time and still not come close to evening everything out. I want to avoid our soundguy or others chasing me all night with the fader. I'm wondering whether a limiter will be helpful to put a ceiling on some of the brighter sounding patches (ie: brass, tone wheel organ, synth lead) without sacrificing some of the other compressed sounding patches (piano, EP's, some organs, pads). is there something I can put in the chain between myself and the FOH board that will help tame some frequencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members srp72ee Posted July 8, 2008 Members Share Posted July 8, 2008 A 31 Band EQ is probably your best bet to reduce some of the harshness. I've found with my synth that reduction around 1KHz. works pretty good. If you take the harshness out of the sound, the "apparent" volume in the FOH may seem to correct itself. You really don't need a limiter, but possibly some compression at a moderate threshold to maybe take some additional edge off. The dynamic range of a synth is already limited so Comp/Limiters have no real value for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Real MC Posted July 8, 2008 Members Share Posted July 8, 2008 I play keyboards and run sound. There is no "magic box" that will solve your problem, a limiter or compressor will make it sound worse. Switching between Hammond, strings, piano, brass et al ain't gonna sound good going through compression. I don't recommend EQ either - while it can reduce conflicting harmonics with other instruments, it will make your other sounds thin out. That is the wrong approach. You're just going to have to buckle down and balance all your sounds. I had a rig some years ago with double the patches and synths and went through that balancing process. I can offer that you should record your shows off the FOH board and use that recording as a gauge to how much balancing needs to be done, it will eliminate a lot of guesswork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted July 8, 2008 Members Share Posted July 8, 2008 i too play keys in a band and do the sound from stage. my method to control the patch issue is use the volume slider on my lead keyboard. works very well that way. the pad keyboard is pretty even and doesnt need adjustment. i have a 15" speaker mounted high so i'm the first to know if i am too loud. a volume pedal would work well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted July 8, 2008 Members Share Posted July 8, 2008 yea, no "easy" solution. That sounds like only a couple hours work to me.. you're running 2 DIs from your mixer in stereo to the board? I have the most difficulties with keyboard players not aware of how to instantly mix themselves with the onstage band volume. It makes it difficult when they're running multiple keys into a mixer, then to me. You have to be mindful that on every song there could be some surprise level bump. I'm sure you've already questioned yourself on whether you need 4 different synths and 40 patches to do the show. Perhaps the subtle shades between key sounds is that important. I can see needing the samples... But, that sure seems like a lot of stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 8, 2008 Members Share Posted July 8, 2008 You really need to balance your patches, either via software or on the fly using the volume controls on the keys/submixer. Compression isn't going to do what you hope IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 You really need to balance your patches, either via software or on the fly using the volume controls on the keys/submixer. Compression isn't going to do what you hope IMO. Our keyboard player had the exact same prob. I then placed a comp in line with his rig and this did help to tame his patch volume issues considerably.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 Our keyboard player had the exact same prob. I then placed a comp in line with his rig and this did help to tame his patch volume issues considerably.... But getting your patches close (volume wise) will go a long way in aiding the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 We use a combination of signal splitting, patch leveling, volume slider and compression. The compression is there to keep things from getting out of hand. You're right about the organ, it's usually a more mellow patch. Our keys player has a Hammond module that he sends out to the board as a second signal so it has it's own channel. This also allows it to be EQ'd differently than the synth strip. We've moved back to running sound from stage after several years of having someone do it and it's my opinion that you need compression on everything if that's how you're going to roll. Just seeing the amount of compression lets me know what each channel is doing (like being able to see the PFL of each channel at all times. e-drums help as they are already set up with compression. My Voiceworks processor has it built in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members drumstix Posted August 19, 2008 Members Share Posted August 19, 2008 This is really just a shot in the dark-more like thinking out loud so might be worthless. What about routing the keys into a small mixer on stage that the keyboardist can visually check signal levels with a PFL LED? Then send either a summed signal or direct channel outs to the FOH mixer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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