Members Big Al Posted July 30, 2008 Members Share Posted July 30, 2008 This has happened at more than one gig: Vocal sounds fine in the monitors. Vocal sounds fine in the mains when monitors are off. But when monitors and mains are both on, the vocal sounds awful out front. Usually it sounds really thin. At the last gig, it sounded too bassy in a way that could not be EQ'd out at the board. Is this some kind of phase issue created because the monitors bounce off the back wall and the distance traveled by the sound delays it just enough to put it out of phase? If that is the problem, how do I fix it? Obviously lowering stage volume would be a step in the right direction, but we can only go so low.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 30, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Yes, room modes can cause cancellations and build-ups. They typically will vary as you move about the room. Was this the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted July 30, 2008 Members Share Posted July 30, 2008 and if you have a lot of monitors pumping volume onstage, lots of open mics(worse yet, some condensors picking up everything) and a close back/side wall(s) without absorbtion, you could be in for a muddy FOH mix. Shut off the FOH and see how much influence your monitor rig contributes. It's a phase problem to an extent, a room issue as Craig pointed out and plain 'ol normal things a soundman has to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members congaron Posted July 30, 2008 Members Share Posted July 30, 2008 A band came to our church and played friday-sunday for a youth rally. At the SUnday FOH volume levels for a mixed crowd, our curved stage wall was shooting their monitor mix right back out...out of phase. They simply turned off the FOH and went monitors only. This is a hard semi-circular wall behind the stage. Makes for a tough mix in a concrete block sanctuary with nearly no soft material except the seats and bodies. The next time they played here, they had IEMS. Another good arguement for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted July 30, 2008 Members Share Posted July 30, 2008 grab a couple Whirlwind XLR phase flippers and ty it out on the monitor send. It'll never be totally out of phase, just smeared but the phase reverse might do something. I had a band on the parks& rec stage with a KMS105 Neumann mic. He was incensed that I suggested a 58 might clean up all the wash...it did, a bunch dumb question: have you checked all cables and or banana plugs, etc?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Big Al Posted July 31, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sounds like you guys think it's a phase issue. I can turn my vocal down in the monitors (I have IEMs), but if it gets too low, the other guys won't be able to hear. Is there a way the sound man can delay my vocal a few mili-seconds to make it match up? Is there a rule of thumb--a certain number of mili-seconds per foot? At this particular gig, we were on a stage with a hard wall behind us. The mains were on the floor in front, so the sound from the wedges must have traveled 15 feet to the back wall and then another 20 feet forward before it was even with the mains. I sort of have the same problem with my acoustic guitar. Bounced off the back wall, you mostly hear the lows and some mids. The sound man makes my guitar sound really brittle and thin in the mains to round out the sound, but it sounds like crap because the highs are getting to your ear before the lows. So what's the answer? Turn down the vocals and acoustic guitar on stage? I could play through an amp. Is there equipment designed to fix this problem? I realize 95% of the people in the audience will never notice, but it would be nice if we could fix the problem. Some video was shot of the show, and even in the flip video speaker, I can tell my vocal was weak in the mains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Big Al Posted July 31, 2008 Author Members Share Posted July 31, 2008 One more thought: Is it best to set up as close to the back wall as possible to shorten the distance sound from the monitors travels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 31, 2008 Members Share Posted July 31, 2008 What if anything are you using in the insert? any effects, anyplace where you are combining an effects signal with the dry signal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members styxer06 Posted July 31, 2008 Members Share Posted July 31, 2008 What if anything are you using in the insert? any effects, anyplace where you are combining an effects signal with the dry signal? I'm thinking the same... is the type of chorus,delay or reverb affect the vocal? and at what setting is the wet/dry mix at? i know that with my guitar set up some reverb setting during practice thru headphones are okay. but when live thru monitors and foh pa my solo channel lacks serious umphthat it should have. I have to change presets for reverb when out on a gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Big Al Posted August 1, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 1, 2008 Thanks for your help!We don't have anything running through the inserts. There are no effects in the monitors. In the mains I think our sound man uses a bit of "nashville plate" reverb. I'm not sure of the wet./dry mix. I put a tiny bit of reverb on my guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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