Electric Drum Kit...Help!

[SirEsquire]

We also use the TD20. It sounds incredible. My drummer also bought a bunch of add on kits that blow away the stock Roland ones. He tried the other TD sets and a couple of Yamaha's but they all sounded like electronic drums. The TD20 sounds like an acoustic kit, especially with the proper care in choosing the components. Even the TD20 would sound like crap without subs pushing the low end. No way would we use e-drums without subs.

 

I am not sure what kind of kit he has. I think it is one of the cheaper Yamaha kits. And no subs.

 

As of right now, the drums just do not sound good ! I am sure we can get the volume issues worked out (thanks to the many suggestions in this thread), but our main beef is with the sound of the drums themselves.

 

I mean, our guitars have good tones, the violin adds a touch of elegance to the music, the singer holds his own...so overall, the band produces a unique sound. But, throw those edrums into the mix...and they stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Compare for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AADdRltP_0w&feature=related (with acoustic kit)

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/homemadebrownies#play/all/uploads-all/1/_8vRdThCRUs (with edrums)

[Speedhead]

We also use the TD20. It sounds incredible. My drummer also bought a bunch of add on kits that blow away the stock Roland ones. He tried the other TD sets and a couple of Yamaha's but they all sounded like electronic drums. The TD20 sounds like an acoustic kit, especially with the proper care in choosing the components. Even the TD20 would sound like crap without subs pushing the low end. No way would we use e-drums without subs.

 

 

 

I agree the TD20 does sound extremely close to an acoustic kit, and with the expansion card is supposed to be even better(havent spent the money on one yet though).

The subs are definately neccesary, live I wouldnt even like using them without a sub for my monitor mix either.

[madjack]

Simplest idea would be to tell your drummer if he wants to use edrums he should provide his own amplification the same as a guitarist or any other instrumentalist. He could use any number of powered cabinets or amps designed for keyboards, etc. (He also should change to acoustic cymbals; the drums in your video were passable, but the cymbals were quite nasty sounding.) Just my opinion. YMMV

[SirEsquire]

 

Simplest idea would be to tell your drummer if he wants to use edrums he should provide his own amplification the same as a guitarist or any other instrumentalist. He could use any number of powered cabinets or amps designed for keyboards, etc. (He also should change to acoustic cymbals; the drums in your video were passable, but the cymbals were quite nasty sounding.) Just my opinion. YMMV

 

 

Wouldn't providing our drummer with a stage monitor suffice for an amp?

And yes, we would like him to use acoustic cymbals.

[Speedhead]

Wouldn't providing our drummer with a stage monitor suffice for an amp? And yes, we are going to have him use acoustic cymbals.

 

 

If you provide a stage monitor that can provide adequate low end then he wouldnt need an amp. A budget monitor will probably not do much for you with the e drums, and you will still need subs for your FOH system to make it sound how it probably should.

[jwlussow]

I like the idea of having the drummer buy the sub, crossover, and amplification for FOH and a decent monitor for stage if he wants to use the e-drums. That seems fair to me. He might actually decide to switch back to acoustic. Amplification of personal instruments should be the individual's responsibility. E-drums are cool but cheap e-drums sound like cheap e-drums, especially without subs.

[Speedhead]

I like the idea of having the drummer buy the sub, crossover, and amplification for FOH and a decent monitor for stage if he wants to use the e-drums. That seems fair to me. He might actually decide to switch back to acoustic. Amplification of personal instruments should be the individual's responsibility. E-drums are cool but cheap e-drums sound like cheap e-drums, especially without subs.

If I didnt buy my own stuff to amplify my Edrums nobody else would have thats for sure. He should provide his own as well

[SirEsquire]

 

I like the idea of having the drummer buy the sub, crossover, and amplification for FOH and a decent monitor for stage if he wants to use the e-drums. That seems fair to me. He might actually decide to switch back to acoustic. Amplification of personal instruments should be the individual's responsibility. E-drums are cool but cheap e-drums sound like cheap e-drums, especially without subs.

 

 

From the start (ever since he first bought the kit and began to use them at shows), we have expressed our concern with his use of the edrums, and we have been very clear that we would prefer him to use an acoustic kit. His reply is that we (the band) need to trust him - trust him that he will play well regardless of what type of kit he is using.

For us, it is not a matter of trust: we know the guy can play! Rather, for us, the issue is sound quality.

The drummer also states that there are many different sounds that one can get from an edrum kit, as opposed to the "one" sound you get with an acoustic kit.

[twostone]

I like the idea of having the drummer buy the sub, crossover, and amplification for FOH and a decent monitor for stage if he wants to use the e-drums. That seems fair to me. He might actually decide to switch back to acoustic. Amplification of personal instruments should be the individual's responsibility. E-drums are cool but cheap e-drums sound like cheap e-drums, especially without subs.

Good set headphones and one good sub and call it day everybody's happy.

[madjack]

If only it were that easy. From the start (ever since he first bought the kit and began to use them at shows), we have expressed our concern with his use of the edrums, and we have been very clear with him that we would prefer him to use his acoustic kit. His response has been stubborn to say the least. His reply is that we (the band) need to trust him - trust him that he will play well regardless of what type of kit he is using. For us, it is not a matter of trust: we know the guy can play! Rather, for us, the issue is sound quality. The drummer also states that there are many different sounds that one can get from an edrum kit, as opposed to the "one" sound you get with an acoustic kit. So, yeah, it's been tough. We are all trying to be mature about the issue, and our confronting him in the past has resulted in nothing. We don't want to "fire" the guy...we really don't. Put it has put a strain on the band...

 

 

It sounds to me as if trust in his playing is not the issue; rather a disagreement on the relative merits of sound. He is correct that an edrum kit will allow for a wider variety of sounds than an acoustic kit, but those sounds should be musically useful in context with the band. That said, I still feel that if he opts to use the electronic drums, he should be the one responsible for providing sound reinforcement for them, whether it be a quality monitor, some time of amp, subs, or whatever works best in your situation.

[jgthatsme]

I used DDrum gear for about 12 years. A few things I learned along the way are:

E-drums work great in a studio where everyone uses headphones, but they don't work so great live unless you have an excellent main PA and an excellent monitor system. E-drums in a live setting are only as good as your PA.

For live applications, floor/wedge monitors are not the answer. The rest of the band will quickly grow tired of the drums blasting back at them. The e-drummer needs his own stage setup, and the beefier the better. Those cute, little e-drum monitors made by Roland and Yamaha are a joke. They're barely useable for practice and completely useless for live work.

When you use e-drums live, the band tends to hear the drums rather than feel the drums, and the feel is extremely important. The best, affordable setup is probably a full-range bass guitar speaker system. Hate to say it, but the best sounding system I've heard in recent times is the new BOSE L1 setup. However, when I heard/saw the band, the drummer was using at least 6 bass modules and possibly as many as 8. His own monitor rig was in the $5,500 neighborhood.

In-ear systems work well, but it still does not take care of the need of the rest of the band to feel the drums. Some stage amplification is necessary.

For your main PA, if you're not using subs, you might as well leave the e-drums at home. Maybe there's some ultra high-end, ultra pricey full-range cabinet that can adequately produce the drums, but the cabinets used by your typical musician will not produce a satisfying sound without subs.

[SirEsquire]

I completely agree with the last few posts stating that the drummer should provide his own subs, setup, etc. You guys are preachin' to the choir, so to speak.

 

I can sympathize with our drummer in his advocating his use of edrums: the ease of setup and tear down, the variety of sounds, etc, but no matter how you put it the issue for the rest of the band always comes back to the sound quality of the electric kit. And it is just not there!

 

There have been some great suggestions about how we can produce better stage volume as a group, and we are looking forward to implementing those ideas.

[twostone]

Here ya go here's the future of e-kit drumming

which I use a similar set up I have a nice library of of 3 different software libraries . Steven Slate Drums , Superior2.0, which is on this video and BFD2. Mikey's using a RET kit with Alesis trigger I/O and Superior 2.0 FYI the Alesis trigger I/O is not compatible with some of the Roland trigger pads. The Alesis trigger I/O doesn't support position sensing and 3 zone triggers that Roland pads uses on some of their drum pads. I use a Roland e-kit via midi usb. Your drummer can use the existing kit pads to trigger the software drum module that blow away his existing drum module samples. He doesn't have to have the Alesis trigger I/O if his drum module has a midi out. Also nice vocal harmony on your video. FWIW at least ditch the e-cymbal and use real cymbals. His budget e-kit cymbal suck. You still need a drum wedge and sub I recommend the Yorkville NX750P for the drum wedge and at least one LS720P sub to start with. Peace out and good luck.
P.S. You can have your drummer PM if he likes. I can help him out if he wants the newest type of e-kit set up.

[jgthatsme]

Generic (or any) pads into an Alesis I/O midi to USB module into a laptop controlled by a Microsoft operating system running e-drum software just doesn't seem to me to be the future of e-drumming. And somewhere in there is a Presonus component. Maybe in the studio I'd use it, but for a live performance it sounds more like a nightmare waiting to happen.

The best e-drum gear ever made was by DDrum. They got out of it years ago, but some of the guys from Clavia (which owned the DDrum product) are getting something else going called 2 Box. This is the future of e-drumming:

http://www.2box.se/

[twostone]

Generic (or any) pads into an Alesis I/O midi to USB module into a laptop controlled by a Microsoft operating system running e-drum software just doesn't seem to me to be the future of e-drumming. And somewhere in there is a Presonus component. Maybe in the studio I'd use it, but for a live performance it sounds more like a nightmare waiting to happen. The best e-drum gear ever made was by DDrum. They got out of it years ago, but some of the guys from Clavia (which owned the DDrum product) are getting something else going called 2 Box. This is the future of e-drumming: http://www.2box.se/

 

 

That's a pretty cool design at least you can store samples via usb then access the samples you load and your not be depended on a external PC or Mac OS, but you still gotta load the samples from PC or Mac. The drums samples sounded like a library from Superior drums. E-kits have come a long ways, since the Simmons daze. Just wished the leading e-kit companies would quit loading the crappy drum samples into their modules. I sympathize with the OP's and his drummer's e-kit, the cymbals sound horrible, No wonder the OP is here trying to figure out how not to use his drummer's e-kit for target practice. One thing I notice on their web, they didn't have any US distributors.

[jgthatsme]

There were a couple significant things which made DDrum gear better and which are supposed to be part of 2 Box.

First, the DDrum sound library was largely real drum samples. Yes, their library included synthesized sounds, but for the most part the library consisted of real drum samples. Yamaha and Roland do not load crappy drum samples into their modules, or any drum samples for that matter (well, if they do it's very limited). Instead, they create drum sounds based on computer modeling. Their library of "samples" sounds artificial because the sounds are artificial. They're created from scratch through a computer program. I'm not saying they don't have a place in certain musical genres, particulary rap, hip-hop, and other modern styles, but I'm less than satisfied hearing them used for classic rock and stuff like that.

Second, DDrum somehow was able to have 1,000 steps of dynamics from softest to loudest. As far as I know, all other modules out there follow the midi standard which gives the user only 128 steps of dynamics from softest to loudest. Hence, DDrum gear was more life-like.

By the way, once the gear gets into the USA, the street price for the 2 Box system is supposed to be in the $2,300 - $2,600 range and it'll be competing against the high-end Roland systems selling in the $5,500 - $6,000 range. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[Crownman]

Without a proper FOH PA and some good monitors he could have the best elevtric kit on the market and it would still sound like ass. Lack of sound reinforcement is the bottom line problem here.

If you buy some subs the drums will sound better and you'll probably not have a problem with them from the audience's perspective. But you'll all hate it onstage like you do now.

Or get some more monitors and a good 15" loaded drum monitor and you'll be happy on the stage but the drums will still sound like ass in FOH.

Or, he goes back to his acoustic kit and then that one monitor will have to be cranked to high heaven for anyone but the singer to hear it.

So like I said, no matter which way you look at it, lack of proper sound reinforcement is the bottom line problem.

[dk123123dk]

For the type of music you posted, a scaled down acoustic kit would be great. He could use brushes or those bamboo rod sticks to quiet things down. Also proper tuning, and smaller drums. They sell kits to turn a floor tom into a bass drum. Perhaps acoustic cymbals and an acoustic bass drum with a few electronic pads for special effects.

 

Tell him that you guys are looking for the best sound possible. Show him some videos of percussionists who don't even use trap drum sets, and still can keep a cool groove. Also offer to help him setup the acoustic kit if its a matter of setup time.

 

Good luck

 

dk