Members gubu Posted September 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 Every show is a success as long as you learn something new, but everything sounds like it went OK. I learnt not to forget my jacket the next time we have an outdoor gig, got drenched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted September 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 Good lord. Please. A pitch? You mean a football field? LOL that's priceless. Sounds like you had a good learning experience. Good job, then. Now, depending on where on earth you are located, why there aren't any sound providers that could handle that size stadium without using different types of speakers I just don't understand. Seems like if the organization had deep pockets they could afford the little details normally necessary in this situation. Such as: Covered stage, covered mix position, same brand PA system, proper power and placement, system tech(s), etc, etc. The whole thing smacks of amateur hour. Seems amazing that it went as well as it did. Congrats for that! It could have been such a disaster, as what everyone here was trying to allude to in their previous posts. Please, take no offense to this. Pitch=football field in these parts. You might have noticed that it's surrounded by a stadium. I gave the seating capacity in one of the first posts. There are times when it's ok to be nasty and this isn't one of them, friend. The hire company provided all the pa they had. More of their gear was being used at a major 2 day music festival on the same weekend so that's what they had. I'd forgotten that the deep pockets are controlled by tight fists and I should have remembered this from my own days playing sports. The band's manager told me on the day of the gig that the organisers had initially expected the band to cover the costs of the hire company! Amateur hour? Disaster? Apart from the weather, everything went perfectly from start to finish. Be disingenuous if you want but we put on a professional show and entertained and held a good crowd in the pissing rain I asked a straightforward question at the start of this thread about the likely size and configuration for a pa that could cover the gig. I may not have used sexy techie language but all the information was in there if you cared to take the time to read it, rather than get on your high horse and throw a load of red herrings at me. I always had total confidence in the hire company to install and operate their pa, in the band to deliver a great set of tunes, and in myself to take clean signals from the stage inputs and process and mix them, delivering quality mixes to the band and audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 Amateur hour? Disaster? Apart from the weather, everything went perfectly from start to finish. Be disingenuous if you want but we put on a professional show and entertained and held a good crowd in the pissing rain I asked a straightforward question at the start of this thread about the likely size and configuration for a pa that could cover the gig. I may not have used sexy techie language but all the information was in there if you cared to take the time to read it, rather than get on your high horse and throw a load of red herrings at me. You asked questions and you got answers, that's what we do. We're not the nicest people but I can tell you from experience, this is the most helpful and informative forum you'll ever visit. We're not trying to offend anybody with our advice, we're trying to snap people out of their ignorance to the world of live sound, and yet some people take offense and instead do quite the opposite... usually to disastrous results. We get a lot of people with wild expectations of what their equipment and they as engineers can do, and a lot of times they don't like our answers to their questions and storm off in a huff... people don't like being told they're wrong. Some of them actually step back and realize either they're in over their head, or come in with a fresh approach, ready to learn and provide a superior service. Instead of getting defensive, it's a better idea to listen... maybe there's something to be learned. I'm glad the show worked out, I really am, but I agree with the post above: that from what you're saying this sounds like a total amateur production. Maybe you have different expectations of what a professional production is, but the fact of the matter is that none of us were at the show and none of us can give a proper review of how things went down. Bottom line: you're happy with how things went. That said, I don't believe any of your questions or any advice we gave or could give had an impact on what you were trying to do... and that was our point from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 Sorry/ I guess it's hard to tell someone is chuckling on the internet. I actually read several posts before I realized that you were actually talking about a football field. So I was more laughing at myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 Glad it all worked out for you well enough. I agree to a point with the others that it does sound like amateur hour, but that doesn't (or shouldn't) reflect on you or the band. As I said in a previous post, you as the talent shouldn't have to worry about any of these details. It's the band's job to enjoy some beers in the green room and then go rock out. As the band's engineer, the only pre-production work you should be expected to do is to call the hire company to make sure they're bringing everything you need at FOH and the band needs on stage. You show up, you mix, and then you enjoy some beers with the band. This is how it works in the real world. Now, depending on where on earth you are located, why there aren't any sound providers that could handle that size stadium without using different types of speakers I just don't understand. Seems like if the organization had deep pockets they could afford the little details normally necessary in this situation. Such as: Covered stage, covered mix position, same brand PA system, proper power and placement, system tech(s), etc, etc. Mixing different brands within a system is very common at all levels. I see it all the time even with large touring companies such as Clair, Rat or Firehouse. I do it myself all the time. Say I'm using Adamsons for mains. Adamson doesn't make a low profile front-fill type speaker, so I use EAW for that. I haven't bought into Adamson's 21" subs (yet), so we use the L'acoustics subs that work just fine. As long as you have the processing power to properly align and EQ everything, there's no reason you can't mix and match and make it work great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 I think the mixing and matching was within the main PA, not the add-ons and fills. How would you feel seeing a system with a mix of whatever was left in the shop scattered amongst the FOH PA? In the real world, your portrayal of advance work and kicking back enjoying beer is not a generality IME. Yeah, there are some gigs like that but there are just as many where things do not go that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted September 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 You asked questions and you got answers, that's what we do. We're not the nicest people but I can tell you from experience, this is the most helpful and informative forum you'll ever visit. We're not trying to offend anybody with our advice, we're trying to snap people out of their ignorance to the world of live sound, and yet some people take offense and instead do quite the opposite... usually to disastrous results. We get a lot of people with wild expectations of what their equipment and they as engineers can do, and a lot of times they don't like our answers to their questions and storm off in a huff... people don't like being told they're wrong. Some of them actually step back and realize either they're in over their head, or come in with a fresh approach, ready to learn and provide a superior service. Instead of getting defensive, it's a better idea to listen... maybe there's something to be learned. I'm glad the show worked out, I really am, but I agree with the post above: that from what you're saying this sounds like a total amateur production. Maybe you have different expectations of what a professional production is, but the fact of the matter is that none of us were at the show and none of us can give a proper review of how things went down. Bottom line: you're happy with how things went. That said, I don't believe any of your questions or any advice we gave or could give had an impact on what you were trying to do... and that was our point from the start. Bloody hell, Mogwix! That red herrings comment wasn't even directed at you. If you check back thru the thread, i actually took on board some advice you gave me Now, I'd like to debate amateur vs. professional:- It's fair to say that this is the biggest show that this band and myself have done, so ya, it was a step up for us. However, all parties involved, the band, myself, the hire company and the organisers communicated effectively with each other to ensure a quality show was produced which was entertaining and safe for everyone involved. The proof of this was that it went off without a hitch and the crowd would have stayed for a 2nd hour long set in the rain except it was too dangerous to continue. The organisers wouldn't stretch to a covered mix booth out in the crowd or the ducting and barriers needed to make it safe to do so but, between the hire company chief and myself, we got a quality mix to the crowd and the band despite the gale force wind blowing across the stage and PA. To me, this is a professional gig, whatever anyone else wants to call it. I was a punter at a brand name 3 day music festival earlier in the year, 80,000 heads @ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Speedhead Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 Well i'm not going to discuss professional vs. non, but i will mention a concert i went to a few years back that i was less than impressed with. Metallica's St. Anger Tour a few years back In Edmonton, Alberta. Sold out crowd in the round(approximately 17000 people I believe) I had seats in the second bowl of the arena(still over $100 a ticket) and the concert was hardly audible from that position. Quiet enough to have a conversation without speaking much louder than normal speaking levels and yet still muddy enough to barely decifer which song they were playing until a very recognizable part of a chorus came up. So all I can say is bad sound happens at all levels of the business. Same goes with good sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gubu Posted September 14, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2009 Ok, thanks to everyone, red herrings and all. I did learn a lot from this gig, too much to go into here. Mogwix, HC is the best resource available on the net for jobbing musicians and engineers, hands down. See, there's something else we agree on! I still think many of the replies on here could have dealt directly with my original question. I described the venue and the overall operation to a 't' in my first couple of posts and just needed a simple answer. I didn't ask about articulation etc. because it doesn't really matter to me. All I wanted to know was how much pa we needed and what way to configure it Anyway, we're back to the old chicken and chips circuit so it'll be a while before I'm on here getting uppitty asking questions about things that I couldn't possibly understand! Until we get booked for something else high profile, I'll keep my questions to 'best bang for the buck compressors' and 'how to kill feedback from resonant acoustic instruments at high volume' etc. so as not to upset anyone... Think I'll go over to the poli forum now and start a class war!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 14, 2009 Members Share Posted September 14, 2009 Articulation should matter to you IMO, a whole lot too. It feeds directly into how much PA you need and what type. Efficiency also plays a big role... a 6dB difference in (real) sensitivity is a difference of 4x the required power for equiv. SPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Special J Posted September 14, 2009 Members Share Posted September 14, 2009 In the real world, your portrayal of advance work and kicking back enjoying beer is not a generality IME. Yeah, there are some gigs like that but there are just as many where things do not go that way. This is true, I exagerated. You always have to take the bad with the good. Many FOH engineers double up as production or tour managers or even as merch guys giving themselves plenty to do pre and post gig. But, it's a rare thing when I see the band and their engineer doing a stadium gig and being responsible for hiring the sound (and loading it in, setting it up, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 14, 2009 Members Share Posted September 14, 2009 But, it's a rare thing when I see the band and their engineer doing a stadium gig and being responsible for hiring the sound (and loading it in, setting it up, etc.). True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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