Members Unalaska Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 Oh f*ck, I recently did a rock show using 3 SRX-712's per side Aged did u run the 3-712 passive?????? i doubt you didsince the subs were blinking which leads me to thinkit was run bi amped...I have a muzo who runs them passive he is affraid the foh guy will be lost going to such an unfamiler place, just wondering. Are you referring to the 712 being run full range or bi-amp? Of course the speaker managament would cross the 712's over the 718's (no "built in crossover" on speakers!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philw44 Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 This point has been on my mind for a while - I recently purchased a pair of MRX 512Ms as an intended upgrade from SF25s - SF 25s basically being the old JRX125. Clarity - sure. They make my alternative speakers (like Eons) sound distorted by comparison. The MRX have vastly better clarity and crispness. And they weigh 14 kg! But they really seem to lack low-mid power. Say, the toms, the snare, the guitar - come across pretty weak when using these over my 4x18 behringer subs. I'm a bit bemused by this - unsure if i am doing something wrong or if possibly there is something wrong with my speakers. They seem to have nice horns, but just really lack in the "woofer" section. They're great on foldback duties though, for mostly vocals and a bit of keyboard, acoustic guitar etc. Thats just my experience with 12"/1" boxes in general. They really don't work great for rock music (which i do a lot of..) - even with properly crossed over subs. You still get a bit of that 'hole in the middle' effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jkm Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 Are you referring to the 712 being run full range or bi-amp? Of course the speaker managament would cross the 712's over the 718's (no "built in crossover" on speakers!). talking about the 6 hi pacs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 The 712's were biamped on top of subs that are activly crossed as well. It's a 3 way active (triamped) system. It's the same racks that my line array system uses except with different parameters in the processor. Quite handy actually, that's partly why I got them. They can be used with all the existing line array racks so If I have a venue or area that doesn't need the line arrays, I can still grab the same rack for this system. I have 6 amp racks, each with it's own processing, so I can grab and go with the leas amount of specific inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 Thats just my experience with 12"/1" boxes in general. They really don't work great for rock music (which i do a lot of..) - even with properly crossed over subs. You still get a bit of that 'hole in the middle' effect. Then you do not have a very wide range of experience with either speakers or processing. There are some outstanding 12"/1" boxes out there that will do the job nicely when mated up to subs with proper processing. The key is understanding the details and matching up to the right processing and having enough PA to do the job. The 2206 driver is plenty meaty for low mic grunt, as are drivers by Gauss, EV, 18 Sound, EAW/RCF, etc. There are also some great 1" drivers out there that have plenty of output and when mated to appropriate horns are plenty solid to 1200Hz. I have a couple of Harbinger 1" long throw horns, fior example, that have good loading and 40x60 pattern control down to 1200 HZ with no problem. Mated to 2425's, that was one common long throw rock HF section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 Where do you have them crossed over at? What filter types and slopes? The 512 seems to work better crossed around 125Hz-150Hz under some applications, whereas the 515 may be better around 100Hz. The LF drivers in the 512 are specially dsigned to sound very open and natural in the mids and low mids without the distortion that's common with some ofthe lower line products. You may be hearing a more natural and accurate sound. Access to a real time analyzer would allow you to look at the response to see if by chance the problem mightbe subs that are wired out of phase (polarity) or if the filter alignment you are using might require a polarity shift to improve response through the crossover. Also, LR filter alignments tend to sound more open between subs and lows because they are a constant summed energy filter so there will not be the buildup and bump that say a BW filter alignment might exhibit. If the subs were out of phase, wouldnt that mean i couldnt hear the subs? Sorry if that question shows that i dont understand phasing: I don't. I think you could be right about hearing less distortion - on a professionally mixed cd, they do sound great. I will try what you suggested about the crossover point being higher - they're currently crossed over, (using dbx 223, so its not entirely precise) at around 100hz - i had previously used more like 140 but stepped down because of advice i read on here. Not sure about slope, you can't change that on a basic crossover, can you? Main reason i hadnt actually posted specically on this topic yet is that i havent had an opportunity to set these up and just tinker till i get the best i am going to get - I've only used them for one serious gig (and they did fine) and one garage gig (and they brought the vocals out which was about the best we could hope for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 If the subs were out of phase, there is the possibility that there is a lot of destructive phase shift through the crossover point that is creating an issue around 100Hz. The absolute polarity is not what's the issue, it's what is happening through the crossover point. You will still hear subs if they are out of phase (reversed polarity) w/ the mains, but more info is needed regarding your problem. You might try reversing the polarity of your sub output and see how that changes things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jkm Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 If the subs were out of phase, You might try reversing the polarity of your sub output and see how that changes things. OR put them against a wall and see if they come alive. sorry thought from another non sub sound thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jkm Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 I totally disagree about your slating of 15" speakers.I would say they have a different voicing rather than being plain wrong. I agree with any statement that says 12" drivers have better vocal clarity in the upper mids but on the flip side they tend to lack in the lower midrange.For me, clarity (up to a certain degree) does not make me enjoy a sound-reinforcement system more. What excites me is when i can 'feel' the music. I'm not talking about sub frequencies but the 200-400hz region that contains all the 'musical character' I agree 100 hundred percent with you but i still like 12s better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 If the subs were out of phase, there is the possibility that there is a lot of destructive phase sift thriugh the crossover point that is creating an issue around 100Hz. The absolute polarity is not what't the issue, it's what is happening throiugh the crossover point. You will still hear subs if they are out of phase (reversed polarity) w/ the mains, but more info is needed regarding your problem. You might try reversing the polarity of your sub output and see how that changes things. I think i'll try the higher crossover point, see how that goes, then play around with this. When you say 'reversing the polarity' do you mean essentially switching the positive and negative lead on one of the subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 When you say 'reversing the polarity' do you mean essentially switching the positive and negative lead on one of the subs? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 What does the phase switch on the crossover do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 What does the phase switch on the crossover do? Same thing for the particular output that the switch controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted February 17, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2010 We'll be using our new MRX cabs this weekend for a private party, and I'll give you guys my impressions next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 17, 2010 Members Share Posted February 17, 2010 We'll be using our new MRX cabs this weekend for a private party, and I'll give you guys my impressions next week. Cool. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted February 19, 2010 Members Share Posted February 19, 2010 alright. Had the opportunity to A/B the MRX 512m against the SF25/125 setup today. Really next to each other, same subs. MRX just caned it. Almost kept up for volume (500w in one MRX vs 1000w in the 2 larger JBLs). I know thats a bit above RMS but only slightly and thats the amp that was there. It was crisper, nicer and so much cleaner. We didnt end up using it for the show we were setting up for because we wanted to use the MRX as folds and also, the guy in charge of the event (a muso who doesnt actually know PA gear) just couldnt get past the "But it looks so small" factor. So the JRXs are on their last gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 19, 2010 Members Share Posted February 19, 2010 Look at the savings in size and weight too!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted February 19, 2010 Members Share Posted February 19, 2010 yeah! And the point i meant to make was, the main thing i did differently was to bring the crossover setting up to about 140. I think that covers the lesser bottom end of the 512s well, to actually give a much cleaner bottom end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eagertolearn84 Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 I just bought 2 MRX 525 lol. To be perfectly honest I was eyeing the JRX125s but A/B'n them at the local GnC showed me the light (I did check the signal path). I would have gone with the SRX722, but that is going to have to be done on a later date ($$$). I was planning on purchasing MRX 728s and MRX 512Ms next (wouldn't that look cool stacked?). So I guess I'm asking would a group of 12s, 15s and 18s sound better than just 12s and 18s? Being my first buy the remorse is setting in when so many of you top guys knock the dual 15s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 with subs, 12's and 18's, simpler and better (generally) The problem with mixing things up is that each different model of top cabinet has different crossovers and different acoustic phase responses, so things can get undefined (or poorly defined) pretty easily. You can always sell your 515's when you make your next upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eagertolearn84 Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 So there is quite a noticeable difference in the MRX525/MRX512m. I didn't even think of the MRX 512s . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eagertolearn84 Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 Honestly I think I may just wait quite a while until I can afford SRX 722's and SRX728S' rather than keep buying MRX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 Honestly I think I may just wait quite a while until I can afford SRX 722's and SRX728S' rather than keep buying MRX. That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJMC Posted February 21, 2010 Members Share Posted February 21, 2010 You cannot go wrong with MRX (or PRX)....its going to be their workhorse line.A DJ friend of mine in the Bay Area just bought a pair of MRX 512's the same week I got my PRX512m direct from the JBL factory. My friend paid at Guitar Center the same price I paid for the PRX512m's -- about $650.00 apiece. Of course I got the better deal because the PRX cab has 500 watts of Crown amps built in, plus the XLR inputs/outputs and DSP circuitry. Ditto on JBL resale value......just buy those vinyl covers (can be found for around $30 each), to maximize your ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eagertolearn84 Posted February 22, 2010 Members Share Posted February 22, 2010 I bought mine through a middle man @ JBL for about $1570 for the pair. I'm running a Crown XTI-4000 to power the pair. I'm happy that the XTI-4000 is a good choice when running SRX as well. I'm planning on just buying some SRX728s (possibly two) and then buying either the SRX722(s) or SRX712(s). What are your thoughts on the SRX single vs dual 12"? Would I have delay/phasing issues trying to keep the MRX525s and running them in tandem with the SRX722(s) or SRX712(s) and the SRX728s? Great idea on the vinyl covers. I'm using them mainly for rehearsals. No live shows as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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