Buying advice

[agedhorse]

The 1604VLZ has a history of being unreliable... ALL of them now now not ALL of them!!!!

 

Yes, you are right. I exaggerated... not ALL of them failed. Out of the 12 that I installed, only 11 have failed.

[Coaster]

does the twelfth still prop the door open then?

[agedhorse]

does the twelfth still prop the door open then?

 

No, it really does work as intended.

[BillESC]

That's why B-ringer copied it.... with the same results.

[PianoPete]

 

Ugh. I was also scanning CL ads for ya' and nearly every ad was poisoned with 'Ringer/Nady/BBE gear. Downright sCaRy. There's a lot of crap to be sure... but several good deals to be had in the Hudson Valley and beyond... take djr's advice and get your shopping list together of the brands/models that you're looking for and what a "good deal" on that piece would be and then keep your eyes peeled. Your biggest ally right now is time. Many people overpay on used (or God forbid NEW gear) because they need (or think they need) it right NOW. Be patient and have cash in hand... many killer deals can be had if you show up to look at something and say "Would you be willing to take $$$? I can pay you that much in cash." BTW - Welcome... and thanks for the post. After searching CL for ya' I now know where I can buy everything I need to open a roller-skating rink!

 

 

Thanks. Yeah like I said I am not in a big rush. So what brands/models of powered speakers should I be looking for and which should I avoid?

[Coaster]

i'm no fan of the older eon stuff, but the 515 series is good. the prx is good. some will argue that the older stuff is good but hey. personal taste i guess.

 

i would stay the hell away from mackie, especially the 450's. i wouldn't buy anything made by behringer either, no matter what the b12 (or whatever the number is) fanboys say.

 

lotta good expensive stuff out there, i mentioned the 515 first because its my personal price/quality bottom rung; i wouldnt buy anything cheaper or less quality, and you get a lot of speaker for your dollar.

[PianoPete]

The JBL PRX615M is the same price as the 515 but over twice the wattage? Do we like them?

[jwlussow]

PRX over EON any day. If you get a decent price, the PRX is an excellent cab.

[monthlymixcd]

Ditto. Warranties are nice. With the 600 series just coming out there should be deals out there on the 500 series as well. But from what I've seen, the 600s are very competitively priced with that older stuff so if it were me I'd just jump into the new stuff if that's how you're leaning. The exception seems to be the PRX718S subs... I've seen some killer pricing on those.

 

For what you described in your original post and the price range you mentioned later... you could put a decent system together using used stuff (JBL PRX, QSC HPR or KW, or maybe EV or Yorkville) or get a good start on one with a few good new pieces from those lines.

[PianoPete]

Cool. I could imagine there are scammers out there changing woofers in the cabs etc., and I am not sure I could spot something like that. Seeing as half my budget will be going to speakers I would feel safer with a new warrantied product afa speakers are concerned. Hopefully in a few years I'll know a bit more about it and can make more educated decisions about this stuff. Meanwhile I'll keep reading/posting until I am ready to pull the trigger. Thanks!

[abzurd]

 

Cool. I could imagine there are scammers out there changing woofers in the cabs etc.

 

 

Don't think it's just the private owner doing this either. There are some shady retailers out there. About 10 yrs ago Audiolines did exactly what you describe above. I busted them on it and they replaced it with no complaint, but also no explanation about how one of my new sub-woofers had a non-spec driver in it.

[6Imzadi]

My opinion on your Kurzweil keys; It would rather have a UPS. That would do much more for your key rig than a "power conditioner". If you were to read the specs of the p.c., you would find it of no real help.

[PianoPete]

 

My opinion on your Kurzweil keys; It would rather have a UPS. That would do much more for your key rig than a "power conditioner". If you were to read the specs of the p.c., you would find it of no real help.

 

 

Yeah I've clearly had that beaten into my brain in this thread lol. But hey that's why I am here so it's all good.

[Telecruiser]

Yeah I've clearly had that beaten into my brain in this thread lol. But hey that's why I am here so it's all good.

 

You are certainly a good sport.

[BillESC]

EV offers some excellent powered cabinets offering rich sound and impressive output. American made with German amplifier modules. Hard to beat. IMHO.

[6Imzadi]

You are certainly a good sport.

 

+1 to this. You are going to learn a lot on this forum. BTW, welcome

[PianoPete]

So it looks like it's going to be the JBL PRX615M's for the mains. I can get them for $739 each at the local music store. I have the lousy mixer arriving this week. What should I research next? Think I'll need a sub or can that wait? I know I will need stage monitors but we have old stuff we can use for that for the time being. I think I need basic effects (the mixer has none). Should I be thinking about something like a driverack or just grab some cheap effects/EQ off ebay/Craigslist? What's next? Do I really need to junk the mixer right away?

 

PS-Any particular cables (and speaker stands) you would recommend or avoid?

[monthlymixcd]

Well, that leaves you with $2,500 for purchases over the next few months. You really have nothing but the Mackie right now?!? If you're really starting from scratch and want to try to get by with the Mackie for the time being, my advice is to still be thinking about where you'd like to eventually be mixer-wise... and only be buying pieces that will work with that as well.

 

If you're going to have a horn section you should be working on your monitor world with that in mind. Start scanning CL for used SM57s or whatever, mic stands, cabling, and the monitors/amps or powered cabs to use as monitors. As many monitor mixes as you can swing. If you know that your future horn players can chip in for their own IEMs... then I'd go that direction for everything... and there goes all your $$$. That Mackie is really going to limit you on the # of monitor mixes BTW... I'm looking at the manual right now.

 

I'd recommend getting at least one sub for now. You'd be surprised how many more people you can cover with those JBLs if you've got a dedicated sub for the LF.

[agedhorse]

Since you have the DriveRack essentially built into each PRX-600 speaker, AND properly programmed by the design engineers for correct anechoic response, all you really might need is a 1/3 octave eq for room correction, one channel for left, one for right and one for each wedge monitor mix you intend to run. You may find that you do not even need the eq for mains. Probably don't need them for IEM's either.

[fishmanrod]

My priority would be, in order

microphones for vocals

Di boxes (you can rehearse at this point, with your mixer and old monitors)

Powered Top mains

enough cables to plug stuff in. (You could gig at this point)

eq for monitors (for feedback supression)

an effect for reverb/delay

mics for drums and guitar cabs

subs (now you can gig bigger places)

Eq for mains.

A new mixer. Mixwiz is nice. A and H gl2400 is beautiful but probably too big for you. Soundcraft makes nice stuff too.

A snake and a buddy to run the board for you so you are not mixing from the stage.

gate for drum mics (if you are loud)

better monitors or EIM's

compressors

 

I highly recommend yorkville, new or used its good gear. I highly recommend powered. I have run into EV stuff many times in my career. It's pro gear and generally good stuff. Sometimes you can get good Peavey stuff. A lot of their rack gear floating around used, it works well and can be picked up cheaply.

 

I also highly recommend a $15 wall plug tester. I bet half your issues with crappy power in bars was because the plug had a faulty ground. Bill is right, power conditioning is a racket. I've never lost so much as a fuse in 20 years due to NOT having a power conditioner. Spend your money on something useful. Sorry to be another voice beating you up on this one.

 

And as the other fine fellows said, welcome and good luck!

[PianoPete]

Well, that leaves you with $2,500 for purchases over the next few months. You really have nothing but the Mackie right now?!? If you're really starting from scratch and want to try to get by with the Mackie for the time being, my advice is to still be thinking about where you'd like to eventually be mixer-wise... and only be buying pieces that will work with that as well. If you're going to have a horn section you should be working on your monitor world with that in mind. Start scanning CL for used SM57s or whatever, mic stands, cabling, and the monitors/amps or powered cabs to use as monitors. As many monitor mixes as you can swing. If you know that your future horn players can chip in for their own IEMs... then I'd go that direction for everything... and there goes all your $$$. That Mackie is really going to limit you on the # of monitor mixes BTW... I'm looking at the manual right now. I'd recommend getting at least one sub for now. You'd be surprised how many more people you can cover with those JBLs if you've got a dedicated sub for the LF.

 

I need to be clearer about my situation. The budget I quoted was a rough figure thrown out there to give an idea of what I am looking at in general and the immediate future. I am not in a rush to have it all right away. I need a basic system as soon as possible to start learning to operate it as well as running vocals for auditions/rehearsals, and I would like to have the ability to do small 5 piece gigs within 4 months or so. There is no 'hard line' here. If it is 6 months instead of 4 so be it. The horns won't be on board until next summer at the earliest so that can wait. If I need more funds then that just means more time. I will hire a pro for the higher end gigs but there will be many gigs where that is not an option so I need to get hands on pronto. The plan is long term however so I would rather not spend any significant amount on something I won't need in 2 years.

 

I have a Sure58 and everyone I know has a Mic or two .

[PianoPete]

 

Since you have the DriveRack essentially built into each PRX-600 speaker, AND properly programmed by the design engineers for correct anechoic response, all you really might need is a 1/3 octave eq for room correction, one channel for left, one for right and one for each wedge monitor mix you intend to run. You may find that you do not even need the eq for mains. Probably don't need them for IEM's either.

 

 

Nice. Validates the speaker choice for me thanks.

 

Does this mean I should be thinking about IEM's for the horns?

 

I had look look up anechoic...

[agedhorse]

 

Does this mean I should be thinking about IEM's for the horns?

 

 

Maybe. Depends on if the horn players will be comfortable with them. It will certainly help the stage and house sound if they can work with IEMs.

[PianoPete]

 

My priority would be, in order microphones for vocals Di boxes (you can rehearse at this point, with your mixer and old monitors) Powered Top mains enough cables to plug stuff in. (You could gig at this point) eq for monitors (for feedback supression) an effect for reverb/delay mics for drums and guitar cabs subs (now you can gig bigger places) Eq for mains. A new mixer. Mixwiz is nice. A and H gl2400 is beautiful but probably too big for you. Soundcraft makes nice stuff too. A snake and a buddy to run the board for you so you are not mixing from the stage. gate for drum mics (if you are loud) better monitors or EIM's compressors I highly recommend yorkville, new or used its good gear. I highly recommend powered. I have run into EV stuff many times in my career. It's pro gear and generally good stuff. Sometimes you can get good Peavey stuff. A lot of their rack gear floating around used, it works well and can be picked up cheaply. I also highly recommend a $15 wall plug tester. I bet half your issues with crappy power in bars was because the plug had a faulty ground. Bill is right, power conditioning is a racket. I've never lost so much as a fuse in 20 years due to NOT having a power conditioner. Spend your money on something useful. Sorry to be another voice beating you up on this one. And as the other fine fellows said, welcome and good luck!

 

 

Ugh I don't wanna post 3 times in a row but I appreciate all these great responses and would like to give them all respect. Hope it isn't against the forum rules.

 

I have the feeling I will be referring to your post again to see what to consider next. Why DI boxes? I need one more for my keys cuz I am changing my rig but what else do I need them for?

[Speedhead]

Possibly use a DI for Bass guitar, but some bass amps have something decent built in you can use to get signal to the mixer too.