Members Rowka Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 I revisited the Christmas song I tracked last December. Cleaned up a few things, added a little prec stuff. My wife came in and said the 5-part sax tracks sounded like an accordion. Does it sound that way to you?If so, why? http://www.rowka.com/Safire/Have_Yourself.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonathan_matos5 Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 maybe a mixing issue it is really bright and on the high side, perhaps a little more volume on the lower voices will help. i cant say its your playing without actually seeing it performed live would give me more insight. sounds more like a concertina than accordion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 My guess is you used some kind of pitch correction, which "flattens" out the performances, for lack of a better word. Removing a lot of the subtle pitch variations in a performance is one way this accordian effect is created. Also, more dynamics in your playing will help minimize the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rowka Posted May 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 My guess is you used some kind of pitch ... It's true. I just got pitch-correction software and part of the reason I did this was to "learn the software" Here is the same thing without the pitch correction. I'm not sure it sounds any more sax like. Just more accorion-with-intonation-issues-like. http://www.rowka.com/Safire/Have_Yourself_as_recorded.mp3 Listening again, I can hear the difference. Not as drastic as I might hope, but it's there. Also, it seems my intonation on the original tracks is spotty in places, but not as bad as I had thought. Maybe I'll just re-record the thing after practicing it a little more, and with better mics. And a little faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 OK - better - now you need some dynamics - use those crescendos, decrescendos, don't be afraid of a little vibrato. Never let a note just sit there - do something with it! Happy music making! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bryer M. Posted May 30, 2008 Members Share Posted May 30, 2008 because it is an Accordion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimOBrien Posted May 30, 2008 Members Share Posted May 30, 2008 Your pitch correction software AND using the same horn(s) for all the parts are the problem. REAL sax sections are made up of different horns (even if they're the same brand) that have slightly different pitches (no group can tune EXACTLY and even a few cents makes a difference.) It's the variety to the ear that makes a section.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted May 30, 2008 Members Share Posted May 30, 2008 Your pitch correction software AND using the same horn(s) for all the parts are the problem.REAL sax sections are made up of different horns (even if they're the same brand) that have slightly different pitches (no group can tune EXACTLY and even a few cents makes a difference.) It's the variety to the ear that makes a section.... Good point Tim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rowka Posted May 30, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well, I DID use 3 different horns. Alto (for 2 parts)Tenor (for 2 parts)Bari A forumite over at SOTW took my raw tracks and remixed them (a little reverb and a lot of fader work) and posted it here.It's a big improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted May 30, 2008 Members Share Posted May 30, 2008 Here is a sample from my site of me playing 5 saxes (Alto1 Alto2 Tenor1 Tenor2 Bari) doing my arrangement of the head to Cottontail.No pitch correction - just some reverb - I don't remember if I eq'd it at all - I think not... http://www.realsax.com/audio/Cottontail3.mp3 While I am quite happy with the result, I might start using a different mouthpiece for the 2nd horn parts when I do section work, just to add a little more tonal variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Jim, your clip sounds great, man!! Excellent playing, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Damn Jim, thats the way I WISH most sax sections sounded! Having played all the parts yourself helps, but the way every phrase started and ended together-THAT is what makes a real section! Its odd that you comment about tonal variety; in trumpet land its generally a given that in major groups everyone will play similar equipment to "blend." This can extend as far as mouthpieces at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 I agree, SSB, and most horn sections could stand to study the classic Ellington sections as thoroughly as Jim obviously has. Tone plus killer phrasing equals Ellingtonian swing. Jim you obviously are quite good in the studio as well, again really excellent work on the clip man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 I agree, SSB, and most horn sections could stand to study the classic Ellington sections as thoroughly as Jim obviously has. Tone plus killer phrasing equals Ellingtonian swing. Jim you obviously are quite good in the studio as well, again really excellent work on the clip man! Thanks guys - I really aprreciatte your comments! I must admit I'm a bit shaken up at the moment. I was coming back from a gig tonight and got rear ended by a speeder - my van was totalled. I hit both guard rails did a 360 and endud up facing traffic - scary! I'm alright, but still in shock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm glad you're alright Jim. Man, that is really, really scary crap to go through...!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soundministries Posted May 31, 2008 Members Share Posted May 31, 2008 Thanks guys - I really aprreciatte your comments!I must admit I'm a bit shaken up at the moment. I was coming back from a gig tonight and got rear ended by a speeder - my van was totalled. I hit both guard rails did a 360 and endud up facing traffic - scary! I'm alright, but still in shock... First and most importantly I'm very glad that you're alright. Second, since you were on your way home from a gig. . .how are the horns:cry:? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Thanks guys for your support - I really appreciate it. My neck is a bit sore, and I'm a little more tired than usual, but that's it. My apologies to the original poster as I seem to have hijacked this thread- sorry! I had my alto, flute and soprano in the car - and my laptop! Everything seems fine, believe it or not. I played alto and tenor today, I'll put the soprano and flute through the paces tomorrow - fingers crossed. Regards, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Jim, make sure that your neck feels just soreness and not sharp pains. Give it a couple of days too. Glad the horns are ok, too...no doubt you have good cases for them. Do you own a baritone as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Jim, make sure that your neck feels just soreness and not sharp pains. Give it a couple of days too. Glad the horns are ok, too...no doubt you have good cases for them. Do you own a baritone as well? Thanks Lambros - good advice - I'll take it. Yes I own a Mark VI Bari but the show I'm in doesn't call for it, thankfuly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 That's no doubt a good Bari you have, low Eb or A? Had a chance to get a really good Yamaha 62 years ago through a friend doing Broadway gigs but regretably, it didn't happen. That is going to be my last major horn purchase and I've had to put it off for a number of years because I concentrated more on bass clarinet, soprano clarinet and flute. I have a really good Selmer, late Series 9 horn, low C bass clarinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 That's no doubt a good Bari you have, low Eb or A? Had a chance to get a really good Yamaha 62 years ago through a friend doing Broadway gigs but regretably, it didn't happen. That is going to be my last major horn purchase and I've had to put it off for a number of years because I concentrated more on bass clarinet, soprano clarinet and flute. I have a really good Selmer, late Series 9 horn, low C bass clarinet. It sounds like you have a nice "arsenal" of horns! I have not nor will I attempt to add Bass Clarinet to my collection. I have my hands full maintaning my trumpet chops in addition to the woodwinds I do play!! My Bari is a low Bb horn - hasn't cost me a job yet, not having the low A ... For a second there I thought you must be a LOT older than me when you wrote "Had a chance to get a really good Yamaha 62 years ago" - until I realized it was a "Yamaha 62" rather than a Yamaha, 62 years ago Regards, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Jim, that is funny and I stand corrected!! Yamaha 62, years ago, back in the early 90s. It barely had a scratch on it and the guy only wanted $1800 for it... Anyway, bass clarinet is a great playing horn, providing you have a good instrument and some background on soprano clarinet. I found that you basically have to think 'big, relaxed sound' with it and then all the dynamic nuances of the horn come naturally as it can play very softly as well. I found alto flute much harder to play consistently in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim Clark Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 Jim, that is funny and I stand corrected!! Yamaha 62, years ago, back in the early 90s. It barely had a scratch on it and the guy only wanted $1800 for it... Anyway, bass clarinet is a great playing horn, providing you have a good instrument and some background on soprano clarinet. I found that you basically have to think 'big, relaxed sound' with it and then all the dynamic nuances of the horn come naturally as it can play very softly as well. I found alto flute much harder to play consistently in comparison. I'm with you on the alto flute, that too takes extra practice... OK - I'm off to my "smooth jazz" gig P.S. Don't hate me guys 'cause I don't play just "straight ahead" (love it tho!) but I like pop music ,etc. - don't tell me you don't like Chaka Khan or Mary J. Blige! If not, that's quite alright - to me, music is like food, there are so many kinds, and you don't have to like them all... Maybe when I get home I'll relax to a little Ravel or Dvorak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lambros Posted June 1, 2008 Members Share Posted June 1, 2008 I think it's fine Jim and some of the greatest solos are straight from pop tunes with great musicians of courses. IndoFunk had a pretty damn good thread a while back on the subject. Enjoy the gig and the bread you get from it!! P.S. I heard some really good Ravel earlier in the week that featured flute, cello and piano and it was an absolutely beautiful composition. It was closer to Ravel's earlier Debussy inspired period, at least to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunburstbasser Posted June 2, 2008 Members Share Posted June 2, 2008 I listen to more Tower of Power and Earth, Wind and Fire than I do Miles Davis and Stan Kenton. For me, its a funk thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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