Need a delay unit with specific features.

[IsildursBane]

I'm doing a musical in April and sound fx are actually written into part of the score. Basically, what happens is that the lead is singing in a cave and he harmonizes with the echo of his voice.

 

We're shooting for all live capture, instead of having him sing to a recording.

 

What I need is a delay unit that will allow me to specify the exact number of repeats and be able to set the decay of those repeats. (i.e. a sole feedback setting isn't going to cut it).

 

The delay time in the score is one full measure and I would REALLY like it if I could tap quarter notes and have the delay time come up in whole notes (i.e. have a 4x multiplier). I seem to recall the TC D2 having some sort of note specification but it's been a while since I've used one and I don't remember if that involved a delay time multiplier, or if it just accented certain repeats over others.

 

A hardware box would be nice, but if you know of a delay plugin inside a digital console that does this, I'd be open to that, too.

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

For something like this, I would automatically choose an SDE unit, not quite exactly what you are looking for but is what was used "in the day".

[IsildursBane]

eh, you gotta join us here in the 21st century. I'd take a D2 over an SDE in a heartbeat.

 

Not sure if we still have them around, but we had a couple SDE units in the studio here for a while - maybe a pair of 1000's and a 2500 if memory serves me right. The tap tempo is on a remote, which, in itself is cool - we didn't have the originals, so I built one that attached to all three unit AND included safety switches so you could avoid accidentally messing up your delay time. My beef with the tap tempo is that instead of just taking the time between the last two taps (like every other tap tempo I've ever used), the SDE's had a 3-button sequence. The first tap reset the time, the second started it, and the third stopped it, setting the delay time. An extra tap would reset the delay time. It may seems like a small change, but for me, that's a pretty annoying hassle when you're trying to make tweaks quickly.

 

It also helps to have high quality switches in the remote box, so they behave consistently, which, of course, I didn't. :-b

 

Besides, I don't think the 1500ms max delay time would be enough. That's mean we'd have to be running at 160bpm.

 

Oh, which raises another concern - it needs to have a max delay time of, I'm guessing, at least 3 seconds.

 

-Dan.

[jasps]

 

I'm doing a musical in April and sound fx are actually written into part of the score. Basically, what happens is that the lead is singing in a cave and he harmonizes with the echo of his voice. We're shooting for all live capture, instead of having him sing to a recording. What I need is a delay unit that will allow me to specify the exact number of repeats and be able to set the decay of those repeats. (i.e. a sole feedback setting isn't going to cut it). The delay time in the score is one full measure and I would REALLY like it if I could tap quarter notes and have the delay time come up in whole notes (i.e. have a 4x multiplier). I seem to recall the TC D2 having some sort of note specification but it's been a while since I've used one and I don't remember if that involved a delay time multiplier, or if it just accented certain repeats over others. A hardware box would be nice, but if you know of a delay plugin inside a digital console that does this, I'd be open to that, too. -Dan.

 

What console are you using? A lot of digital consoles have the ability internally

[agedhorse]

See, I have no problem with the simplicity and grabability of the SDE's. Simple, load the presets for the show and you are done. They sound really good too, just a nice gentle rolloff.

 

I don't need really long times, I don't need "precision" though it's certainly there. I also like the reset and 2 taps to set, to me that works really well.

[6Imzadi]

Cool, I have an SDE1000 for sale. Cheap. Here, the second in the list. Works perfectly.

[agedhorse]

 

Cool, I have an SDE1000 for sale. Cheap. Here , the second in the list. Works perfectly.

 

 

That's a great deal for somebidy looking for an industry standard delay. I would be interested, except I already have a couple. Maybe Mark might be interested in this?

[IsildursBane]

 

and 2 taps to set, to me that works really well.

 

 

Interesting. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. That's a near deal-breaker for me even with just doing rock bands. :-b

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

That's one reason the SDE's became the defacto international choice for delays. I really can't think of another that was so widely accepted, though Yamaha did have one too.

[IsildursBane]

 

That's one reason the SDE's became the defacto international choice for delays. I really can't think of another that was so widely accepted, though Yamaha did have one too.

 

 

It's the 'reset' step in the cycle that messes with me. All of the more modern tap tempos I've used without the reset have, IMO, been infinitely more usable.

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

I like the ability to reset, then with 2 taps have it all done and loaded. It's also how I learned.

[Dogoth]

Yamaha SPX units have this ability as well. Most decent FX units have a patch called "tap delay". Some impliment it more easily than others. I like to use a N/O keyboard pedal (It's like tapping your foot).

 

The FX engines built into Yamaha digital boards (01V and beyond) have this feature. The tap is usualy assignable to one of many buttons (depending on the board).

[IsildursBane]

The issue isn't finding a tap tempo feature: that's easy. It's finding a 3+ second delay time (which isn't all that hard either, though not universal), having a tap/delay multiplier (so I can tap quarter or half-notes and have it delay whole notes), and a multi-tap feature with the ability to define the exact number of repeats. "Multi-tap" is different from the standard "Feedback" (or whatever it's called) style of delay, where the echoes more-or-less fade away. I need 3 echoes: no more, no less. And I need to be able to set the level at which those echoes play back. You can't do that on a delay unit with a "feedback" control, because that's not how they work.

 

I can't find any info on the delay plugins available in the 01V, 02R, and DM2K boards, but according to the M7CL manual, that is a feedback-style delay. I know this is also the case with the lower-end MG-series boards.

 

The TC D-Two gets me about 90% of the way to where I want to go (with it, I'd have to tap half-notes instead of quarter notes), and the remainder is manageable. For those who are interested, the now-discontinued Line6 Echo Pro would allow me to tap quarter notes (and have the delay multiply it to whole notes), but it operates as a feedback-style delay, not a multi-tap. I still have to look at a couple Eventide boxes, though I have a hunch those might be overkill...

 

-Dan.

[scarecrowbob]

Maybe a stupid idea, but have you considered using a sampler?

[IsildursBane]

I thought about it, but the workflow would be a bit more hassle than I want to deal with.

 

-Dan.

[scarecrowbob]

"the workflow would be a bit more hassle than I want to deal with. "

 

Just to clarify, are you thinking samples made before-hand or sampling on the fly? I don't think it would work very well on the fly, but an MPC with pre-recorded samples mapped across the pads seems like a sturdy way of doing it. But then, that might also not work for a variety of reasons.

 

Oh well... best of luck on your search.

[IsildursBane]

 

"the workflow would be a bit more hassle than I want to deal with. " Just to clarify, are you thinking samples made before-hand or sampling on the fly? I don't think it would work very well on the fly, but an MPC with pre-recorded samples mapped across the pads seems like a sturdy way of doing it. But then, that might also not work for a variety of reasons. Oh well... best of luck on your search.

 

 

Ideally, everything will be on-the-fly.

 

-Dan.