Vocal PA Recommendations <$1000

[fridgit]

Hello,

 

I am currently looking for a vocal PA to cover my needs for a rock cover band as well as a prog rock/metal (LOUD) band. This would be mostly for rehearsals and potentially for small gigs.

 

I'd like to spend less than $1000 if at all possible. Is this even realistic?

 

Please help a newb!!!

[Miko Man]

RCF ART 310a or ART 312a active speakers. The current pricing makes them the best value, from what I've read and also in the opinion of a fair number of forumites. Be sure to buy some decent tripod stands to get them up off the floor. Mark C.

[OneEng]

If all you need is speakers (vocals only), then you are OK and Miko Man has the best suggestions I could give you.

 

If you don't have microphones, or mixer, or stands, or cords, then you will need more money.

[fridgit]

I'll need a mixer as well.

[abzurd]

You can get a pair of the RCF's and a mixer for around $1000 and be able to pull off small stuff, but it won't be great. You'll not have monitors so that's going to suck as far as trying to hear yourself. You'll also have hot spots in front of the guitar amps where it could be unbearable for anyone to sit in front of the amp and listen.

[Bobby1Note]

Most "newb's" think that all you need, is a PA for vocals,,, and that you can carry the rest of the room sound,,,, with your combo amps and drums. Well, that works in a small practice room, or small bar, but there are limitations to consider.

 

In a practice, you're basically using your PA speaker, as a room monitor; the loudspeaker is facing you. At a gig however,,, that "monitor" is now facing your audience. Suddenly, all those "LOUD" stage-amps bury your ability to hear the vocals. You might think this is not a big deal,,,, until you actually experience it.

 

Graduating to a full PA system, is a process, and a learning experience. Sometimes, those lessons have to be learned the hard way,,, and this can even cause in-fighting between the band-members who realize this,,, and those who don't. A lot of newb guitar-players, with "monster" amps,,,, think they have to fill the room with "their tone". In essence,,, they wanna compete with the PA system. It takes a bit of experience before they realize, that a PA systems, is "another level" of sound. They have to work WITH the PA,,, not against it. That means, keeping stage-volume at a reasonable level,,,, and letting the PA handle the "room volume/dispersion, etc".

 

Now, you've stated "band practices, and small gigs,,, and vocals only. It's do-able, but $1000. limits you considerably, especially if you don't have a mic and mixer, and accessories like mic-stands, speaker-stands, cables, etc. Do you need FX in the mixer? Do you want a mixer with enough channels that you can "grow into it"? All of these things cost money, and have to be factored into your budget. If you "buy new" at this stage, and you find you've outgrown that equipment quickly, you'll have to sell that item at a loss, and re-buy. Buying "used" can help,,,, but you have to be careful there too. Absolutely stay away from used gear that is advertized as being "hot-rodded" and "modded". Those are a recipe for disaster. Better to buy new,,, or something that's still warranty'd,,, but often,,, that warranty is for the original owner only.

 

Try to have a future-upgrade plan in place,,, BEFORE buying. For example, you can buy a single powered speaker for band-practice and small gigs, and when you need to grow your system,,, you might want to use that speaker as a stage-monitor,,, and use the new/ more powerful speaker, for front-of-house (FOH)

 

Best of luck to you, and above all, have fun. We're always here to help, whenever you need it.

 

By the way,,, just so you'll know what graduating to a "working" small bar-gig system will cost,,, you're basically looking at around $5000. for two subs, two tops, a 16 channel mixer w/FX, mic-stands,,,, speaker-stands,,, cables,,, mics,, and maybe, a monitor or two. If you start mic'ing bass and guitar amps,,, and drums,, you'll have to factor in the mics, stands, cables, D,I. boxes too.

[twostone]

A loud prod/metal band with a $1000 budget. You need to add a zero to that $1000 for any thing that could come close to keeping up with the racks and stacks. Meaning 1/2 stack cabs fridge size bass rig and rack style drums if that's what your using. It common mistake that most newb's that have probably have a $10K back line and think a $1K PA system can work. You'll gonna have to play at really low volume with just with a pair on sticks if your using racks and stacks for your back line doesn't wash out your vocals and push those speakers into limiting trying to keep up.

 

You can still use racks and stack back line because it's what we use, just gotta be aware you can't be cranking them up in a small to medium size room.

I understand 100% that playing metal at a whisper is a bummer, but I also understand you can't being chasing off the crowd with to much volume. FWIW I use the club owners as my SPL meter.

[Marko]

"Loud" definitely comes with a high price

[OneEng]

 

I'll need a mixer as well.

 

 

 

 

2 EV ND767 vocal microphones ($200)

 

Pack of 10 20ft XLR cables ($100)

 

2 mic stands ($50.00)

 

3 RCF312a ($800.00) (one monitor, and 2 mains)

 

Used mixwiz ($700.00) internal reverb

 

 

This is the bare minimum I would recommend.... and you are still quite a way from a heavy metal loud band sound. For that you will need to add 2 subs ($2400.00), drum mic's ($500.00), guitar mic ($100.00).

 

Hope this helps.

[Bobby1Note]

 

2 EV ND767 vocal microphones ($200) Pack of 10 20ft XLR cables ($100) 2 mic stands ($50.00) 3 RCF312a ($800.00) (one monitor, and 2 mains) Used mixwiz ($700.00) internal reverb This is the bare minimum I would recommend.... and you are still quite a way from a heavy metal loud band sound. For that you will need to add 2 subs ($2400.00), drum mic's ($500.00), guitar mic ($100.00). You'd probably want a graphic equalizsr as well. Hope this helps.

 

 

$800. for three RCF 312A's, would be "used" too. Plus, you need stands for those, and the cables from mixer---->speakers. They'd probably want at least a few LED light-fixtures (wash lights), and possibly some dance-floor lighting.

[Bobby1Note]

 

$800. for three RCF 312A's, would be "used" too. Plus, you need stands for those, and the cables from mixer---->speakers. They'd probably want at least a few LED light-fixtures (wash lights), and possibly some dance-floor lighting. You'd want a graphic equalizer, as well.

[twostone]

"Loud" definitely comes with a high price

[fridgit]

Thanks to everyone for the eye opening advice. Please forgive me for not being more detailed and transparent from the start.

 

So allow me to re-route & amend my OP. This PA would be for VOCALS ONLY. Allow me to also edit - this will be for band rehearsals ONLY. I will NOT be mixing or micing any drums, bass, guitars, keys, kazoos, banjos, rusty trombones, skin flutes etc, etc, etc. VOCALS ONLY.

 

I already have 2 mics with mic stands and 2 20' mic cables. I also have 2 20' speaker cables & speaker stands from a smaller powered Kustom PA unit that I have used for small acoustic gigs.

 

I apologize to all that I was not clearer in my OP. I see now that by adding the verbiage "potentially for small gigs", I truly mislead many of you in thinking that I am trying to build a PA that would furnish a small venue/bar. Please know that this is not my aim, nor was it my intent to mislead anyone or give anyone any impressions that I am in the process of building a larger scale PA for rock or heavy metal.

 

I have been looking at a couple of PA package deals, such that include powered mixers like the Yamaha EMX512SC, Yorkville M810 and the Peavey XR 8300/8600.

 

Just recently, my cover band rented a Yorkville MP6D (325 watts) mixer with 2 Yorkville YX12 speakers that covered our band rehearsals and a very small outdoor gig just fine. Again, we used this system for VOCALS ONLY and it did it's job. I am looking at the above mixers that I listed because they have a little more power than the MP6, which did a good job, but we were really pushing it.

 

I am in no way expert about these things, as in most instances, the venues I've played at in the past had their own PA systems provided for vocals. I cannot recall ever micing drums, bass or guitars during my limited gigging experience.

 

To be transparent with you all, I've been mostly performing live solo/duo acoustic guitar gigs and the occasional blues jam for fun for the past 13 years. It's been 16 years since I was gigging with a full rock/metal band on a regular basis. For the blues jams & rock/metal gigs I never had to worry about providing a PA for vocals - we just used the house PA.

 

I'm just a 37 year old songwriter who is getting back into jamming with 2 full bands for the first time in many years - and it is sooooooo much fun! Typically, my style of writing is truly more along the lines of acoustic/pop/southern rock, but when I started playing it was in back '89 and I cut my teeth on the hard rock/heavy metal of those days. So being back in a rock/metal band again is really exciting for me! We are also not doing this as a career by any means, as we are all coworkers at the same hospital who are truly just doing this for fun (and it is so much fun!)

 

Again, I thank you all for your advice.

 

This should've all been in my OP! :face palm:

[Miko Man]

With your clarification, I will continue to suggest active speakers as being worth consideration. First, with the built-in power amplifier and DSP, they are a very modular tool. You can use them as FOH or as monitors, without needing any additional hardware. You are not dependent upon the power of somebody elses amp or powered mixer. Likewise, your options and feature set of non-powered mixers is greater, and more widely available at a lower price point.

 

Other threads and posters have made the above points more eleoquently, but I think I've hit the high points. Mark C.

 

EDIT: look at the recent thread "Mains for my new PA" for more on this subject. I'd post the link, but I haven't figured out how to do it from my iPhone.

[OneEng]

 

With your clarification, I will continue to suggest active speakers as being worth consideration. First, with the built-in power amplifier and DSP, they are a very modular tool. You can use them as FOH or as monitors, without needing any additional hardware. You are not dependent upon the power of somebody elses amp or powered mixer. Likewise, your options and feature set of non-powered mixers is greater, and more widely available at a lower price point. Other threads and posters have made the above points more eleoquently, but I think I've hit the high points. Mark C. EDIT: look at the recent thread "Mains for my new PA" for more on this subject. I'd post the link, but I haven't figured out how to do it from my iPhone.

 

 

Ok, back to saying Miko Man is on the right track. A pair of RCF312a's would be fantastic. If you are only running vocals through this, then I would suggest the Allen & Heath ZED10fx mixer. It has 4 mic inputs and plenty of support for other input options along with a good reverb ($240.00). This would be a HUGE step up from your current configuration.

[Caspar]

Any of the RCF 310A ($400) or 312A($?) will be loud enough for rehearsals and small gigs. If you have mics and stands, one of the above for your monitor and eventually another one or two for FOH and a A&H Zed10fx ($300) would be a nice compact easy to haul rig. And easily loud enough to be too loud at smaller venues when playing with un-miced drums. If you can sing it will sound great as well...