Members dedmeet Posted January 30, 2012 Members Share Posted January 30, 2012 This past weekend, I was part of a new and, hopefully, ongoing monthly ballroom dance event in our town. This was my first event in a new facility. We utilized their large ballroom (100+ x 100+ feet). My gear was fairly simple - laptop to small Numark Mixer (I don't typically bring the live audio stuff for dance gigs; just a portable mixer of some sort), one wired mic, one Shure SLX wireless to body pack on the dance teacher. Speakers were two QSC HPR122i on stands high enough to get the horns just above ear level. System is run Mono. No subs. Music was general ballroom mix with a little current pop tossed in for a specific fun dance. Volume was typically low 90s max, mid 80s average center of floor; ballroom dancers like to hear the music clear enough, but still be able to talk easily. Here is the issue: every surface of the room was reflective. This place was nearly as reverberant as a high school gym. I had to spend some time tweaking the speaker alignments and volumes to get things clear enough without blasting the dancers. In the end, my set up was pretty much as you see in the pic below, with me on stage and speakers flanked L and R aligned as indicated. My thought was to try to get the two cabs to overlap on the center of the floor while keeping the sound from hitting any walls square on. I think I succeeded in large part, but would love your input on the matter. There was little time for experimentation for this event, as load-in times were very short. How would you approach a room like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Aiming the speakers right at the people is your best bet. Let the waterbags suck up the sound before it bounces off of everything. Maybe try lowering them a little and spreading them further apart to cover half the floor with one and the other half with the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 The first thing I would try is to cluster them together on one side of the stage splayed out about 30 degrees. That would solve one set of reflections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Audiopyle Sound Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 Put the speakers up on some tall stands (TS99B) with tilters to angle them down at the dance floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 The first thing I would try is to cluster them together on one side of the stage splayed out about 30 degrees. That would solve one set of reflections. I'm with Andy on this one. Do you actually need two speakers for loudness? Otherwise you will get fewer reflections with a single cabinet (placed anywhere). If you need both, placing them together as a single will minimize reflections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted January 31, 2012 Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I often use a single stack in problem rooms, works well. Some people are used to placing speakers on each side of the stage area regardless of the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted January 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm with Andy on this one. Do you actually need two speakers for loudness? Otherwise you will get fewer reflections with a single cabinet (placed anywhere). If you need both, placing them together as a single will minimize reflections. Oddly, I have another highly reflective room where I do the speakers clustered and splayed with very good results. Not sure why it did not occur to me to try this in this particular room. Due to the size of the room, I think having two speakers is best, but I will experiment next time. Thanks, everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glepko Posted February 1, 2012 Members Share Posted February 1, 2012 andy and mike (as typical) step to the plate with best solutions on this one. do you have access to an analyzer, and perhaps some parametric eq? pulling the audience chat frequencies down a bit (in addition to your boxes tuned to the room, which may be very similar) might help you keep good clarity of the program material at low SPL. as a recreational dancer in similar environments i NEED to hear a crisp top end and clear bottom to pull out the percussion and keep tempo when the room is full-ish of folks socializing at the tables and at that point could care less about the mid-range/vocals in the material. just my opinion, but also an observation seeing others struggle to stay on time. our local club uses a small line array, the elijah from a-line acoustics. best sound in a dancing environment i've ever enjoyed. that system in particular happens to be my favorite for jazz/pop/controlled rock bands in smaller venues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted February 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 Unfortunately, I normally have 15-30 minutes for load in, so there is precious little time for employing an analyzer or deploying a line array, but I will try either a single speaker or the clustered speaker approach next time. I actually managed to get it to sound pretty good last time, but I am finicky and always in search of a better way. glepko - what kind of dancing do you do? I do all manner of Ballroom, Latin, and Swing dancing. I had not ever intended to become a ballroom dance DJ, but the combination of sound guy + dancer + musician became a natural pathway to the dreaded "DJ" world. But, hey, it makes a few $ now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glepko Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 glepko - what kind of dancing do you do? I do all manner of Ballroom, Latin, and Swing dancing. It's a great hobby, no? How long have you been at it? I prefer cha-cha (studied the longest) and rumba. Of course, one must swing around here as the majority of ladies seem to gravitate to it. Salsa is fun once in a while. Shy away from fox trot and waltz as they are physically uncomfortable, but an absolute blast with the right partner. Ditto on the no intentions for being the dance DJ, I don't like to be 'on the job' when I'm out for the night. Never hinted to the organizers that I am a novice sound pro in the region (was REALLY hard to hide my excitement when I saw the mentioned A-Line system at a dance which was actual gear that I had out on at a prior event) And to beat a not-yet-dead horse, I'm expecting you will prefer the results with your mains positioned as aged suggests. If you had something with a 90H horn coverage I'd suggest only one box based on similar experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 And to beat a not-yet-dead horse, I'm expecting you will prefer the results with your mains positioned as aged suggests. If you had something with a 90H horn coverage I'd suggest only one box based on similar experiences. horn dispersion is more likely a total non-issue with most CD horns (like the HPR's) these days. The off axis response is smooth enough that the comb filtering effects will be less noticeable than the existing issues trying to be resolved. This was more true with the physically larger boxes, larger horns and exponential non-CD patterns with ragged off axis fringe response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members glepko Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 horn dispersion is more likely a total non-issue with most CD horns (like the HPR's) these days. The off axis response is smooth enough that the comb filtering effects will be less noticeable than the existing issues trying to be resolved. This was more true with the physically larger boxes, larger horns and exponential non-CD patterns with ragged off axis fringe response. Correct, thanks! I didn't mean to infer comb filtering could be a concern, I often place two cabinets in the splayed manner you advised in this instance. I only meant to suggest he may have perfectly acceptable results with a single cab that uses a wider dispersion than the 75 degrees, which even still may get the job done perfectly in this setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 Correct, thanks!I didn't mean to infer comb filtering could be a concern, I often place two cabinets in the splayed manner you advised in this instance. I only meant to suggest he may have perfectly acceptable results with a single cab that uses a wider dispersion than the 75 degrees, which even still may get the job done perfectly in this setting. Maybe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted February 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 I am seriously considering going with just a single speaker next time. Since volumes do not need to be high, the 70 degree nominal coverage should cover most of the floor ok. Another option is to use 1 or 2 of my Peavey PR12D cabs. They do not sound as good or get as loud, but they have a 90x40 pattern which may put less energy on the floor and ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 If you use 2 of the PR12D's, just use 2 of the HPR's and don't worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Both the ideas of using a single speaker and placing it higher but tilted toward the floor are good ones. By tilting it you will at least be eliminating one reflective surface (the ceiling). The idea of line arrays (with very narrow V dispersion) is they don't send sound to unwanted surfaces. Tilting should help. I'd also agree that a narrower horn in general keeps the sound where you want it and not where it's undesidable. A bad room is just that and without acoustic treatment (I realize this isn't within your perview at all so it won't happen) you can only do so much. As stated placment ad pattern control is about all you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.