Members nat whilk II Posted November 11, 2015 Members Share Posted November 11, 2015 It's my general impression that, when people dislike one genre or another, they usually have a beef with the conventions of said genre. The fans of the genre usually have specific bands or performers they admire. Another way of putting it is, you don't run into people who just love anything and everything that comes under a genre tag. But you sure do run into people who claim to hate anything and everything that comes under a genre tag. So what is it that makes people hate a genre? I'll throw out the idea that what they hate are the stock conventions of the genre - just can't or don't want to get used to the conventions. The 4 on the floor. The country accents. The operatic vocal style. The rap vocal style. The metal vocal style. The complications of prog. The jazziness of jazz. The predictable conventions of whatever - bluegrass, gospel, raga, reggae, R&B, the blues, baroque, high classical, new age, ambient, it just goes on. Every genre or style is defined by certain conventions. Stock stuff. Typical arrangements, instrumentation, length of song, etc. But every admirable artist is recognized as someone who does something interesting, new, skillful, with those conventions. Putting a twist on them, extending them, adding to them, getting more out of them, making them interesting again. The poor examples of any genre are usually creations that contain the most stock, conventional material, right? So there's a sort of point of contact between genre-haters and genre-lovers. A small point of contact, but still there. Of course there is no obligation for anyone to like anything. For myself, I don't like good things to be wasted on me, so I try to give any and all genres a chance. Just give the conventions a pass, lighten up on that aspect, and listen for where the art really is - in the way some artists do something interesting and creative with those conventions. If you hear that, then at some point the conventions become more like the stage setting, but the play's the thing. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mandolin Picker Posted November 11, 2015 Members Share Posted November 11, 2015 One of the reasons that I like bluegrass is that the music is multi-generational. What I mean is a bluegrass song from the 40s could be a hit today, and one from today would easily fit into the songs of the 1940s. If you listen to bluegrass for any length of time, you actually hear that happen. Bands play songs from years gone by, and folks new to bluegrass often don't realize that the song has been around for ages. Although I don't listen to it that often, jazz seems to be the same way. There seems to be a respect there for the core aspects of the genre. Country music use to be that way. That all changes in the 80s/90s. Now country music sounds nothing like its roots. Songs by Hank Williams/George Jones/Porter Wagoner would never get a listen in today’s country music studios. To me, that is sad. That is not to say that the genre can't innovate. There are some bluegrass bands that are doing some incredible stuff and pushing the edge out bluegrass out farther every day. But you listen to it and folks still know its bluegrass. Celtic music I would say is similar. You listen to some of the stuff being put out by Celtic Woman and you immediately recognize it as Celtic but it is new and exciting at the same time. That is what I like. [video=youtube;VcCVjiKfDk8] [video=youtube;1g7XO7gICAo] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 11, 2015 Members Share Posted November 11, 2015 Nat, good question... Any genre of music has its hacks and its artists. Unfortunately the former outnumber the latter. So the first time someone is exposed to a new genre, the odds are excellent they'll encounter a hack rather than an artist. In my experience EVERY genre has some outstanding examples, but finding them is not always easy. Fortunately during the late 90s/early 2000s when I was spending a lot of time in Germany, I could go to the Saturn chain of electronics stores and listen to CD after CD of EDM-type stuff...and buy maybe 1 out of 10 or 20. I'm not a huge fan of country, but every now and then I run across a gem with great vocals, clever lyrics, and drop-dead great musicianship. Works for me...also at this point I find most rock fairly cliched, but again, every now and then something pokes its head through the noise. But...music is my life, so it's not odd that I would keep pursuing listening to a genre to uncover the gems I know are in there somewhere. A casual listener might just hear a few clunkers and decide to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted November 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 11, 2015 Nat, good question... Any genre of music has its hacks and its artists. Unfortunately the former outnumber the latter. So the first time someone is exposed to a new genre, the odds are excellent they'll encounter a hack rather than an artist. In my experience EVERY genre has some outstanding examples, but finding them is not always easy. Fortunately during the late 90s/early 2000s when I was spending a lot of time in Germany, I could go to the Saturn chain of electronics stores and listen to CD after CD of EDM-type stuff...and buy maybe 1 out of 10 or 20. I'm not a huge fan of country, but every now and then I run across a gem with great vocals, clever lyrics, and drop-dead great musicianship. Works for me...also at this point I find most rock fairly cliched, but again, every now and then something pokes its head through the noise. But...music is my life, so it's not odd that I would keep pursuing listening to a genre to uncover the gems I know are in there somewhere. A casual listener might just hear a few clunkers and decide to pass. It certainly true there are more hacks than good artists. But it really can't ever be otherwise. By definition the best stuff is out in the tail of the bell, not in the middle. I see no reason to lament the existence of mediocre productions. The good stuff is good only in comparison, in relation. A league champion in a league with only one team would be meaningless. Or a league of 32 champions in a league of 32 teams. Before someone jumps on this metaphor with "music isn't competition!" - that's not my point at all. The point is that selecting out favorites is an exclusionary process, whether you work off unexamined gut-level taste, or some highly intellectual set of objective criteria or anything in-between. It's simple - we all shop and we don't buy everything. It wouldn't be shopping (or interesting at all) if we bought everything, or if there was only one thing for sale for everyone. Every selection implies some sort of value judgement. I'll pay for this, but not for that - value. But the main thing I'm chasing here is a bit different - the genre-haters seem to be simply stuck in a non-listening, rejection mode. Can't get past some stock convention. Rap vocals....people hear two seconds of rap vocals and it's change the station, zap. Or the twang of a pedal steel and a country voice - click, off it goes. Some electric blues beat chugging along, "NEXT!" The high warble of an operatic soprano, "Turn that @%#@ off!" The song may be good or bad by any criteria whatever - but I don't think they get that far. The genre conventions alone are repellent at a visceral level. So they "Other" or even "Enemy" the genre in total. Of course, it's just music - not races or religions or nations or neighbors. But that's part of what I think art should be all about - we get practice in understanding others that can spill over into real life. Or we can use music as just another way of branding our little hostile tribe behind a wall of rejection and alienation. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 11, 2015 Members Share Posted November 11, 2015 But the main thing I'm chasing here is a bit different - the genre-haters seem to be simply stuck in a non-listening, rejection mode. Can't get past some stock convention. Rap vocals....people hear two seconds of rap vocals and it's change the station, zap. Or the twang of a pedal steel and a country voice - click, off it goes. Of course, it's just music - not races or religions or nations or neighbors. But that's part of what I think art should be all about - we get practice in understanding others that can spill over into real life. Or we can use music as just another way of branding our little hostile tribe behind a wall of rejection and alienation. Those are very insightful comments. I think the "dirty little secret" is that people, even musicians, are fundamentally uncomfortable outside of a comfort zone, and clinging to that comfort zone becomes even more important during times of change. There could also be prejudices that prevent rational judgement. Someone who's racist might turn off rap because his world view is that black people produce nothing of merit. Or, those who think southern people are all ignorant inbreds with missing teeth might turn off as soon as they hear country, and feel the music is "beneath" them. Ditto those who think all rock musicians are drugged-out morons who can play only three chords before reaching the limits of their talent...or that classical music is only for snooty country club members who feel they're superior. In all those cases, if someone admits to themselves they like something that questions their prejudices, they get uncomfortable. They do not like having a belief system called into question. Music affects the body and mind on a profound level that's not fully understood, which may also add to the discomfort at exposure to anything that pokes holes in a belief system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted November 11, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 11, 2015 To balance what I'm saying a bit - I shouldn't make it sound like all genre-haters are operating out of some character deficiency. That would be way over the top. A lot of genre distaste just comes from unfamiliarity, from how very different some genre is to what a person is used to listening to, and from picking up the attitudes of people around you in the natural way people learn and develop. But at some point and in some cases, especially with intelligent musicians, it seems like something else besides a pure interest in art comes into play. What starts out as an unexamined distaste develops into a vitriolic campaign of insults and contempt for some genre or other. Sheesh...just smells like other issues are at work. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted November 14, 2015 Members Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'm not a huge fan of country Do you not like country because you think southern people are all ignorant inbreds with missing teeth, and therefore you feel because you have most (or all) of your teeth, then country music is "beneath" you? Or do you not like it because you feel it's very predictable, formulaic, over produced and boring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Folder Posted November 15, 2015 Members Share Posted November 15, 2015 We are all products of our genes and our environments. Why do some people get all emotional listening to Pavorati while Deep Purple gets others off. Obviously our environments expose us to certain types of music and that has a lot to do with our taste development. But what about people from similar environments who have completely different tastes in music? Could it be that people are just plain hardwired to like certain musical characteristics? I was kidding Craig in the previous post. But I think most people on this forum are musically savvy enough to explain why they may like a particular genre or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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