Members Axisplayer Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 We are a bunch of gruff, tactless, "Old Soundmen" that speak directly and to the point. We don't make friends easily because we come across as antagonistic, but we do want to help. In the end, we just want you to get a system that works as needed in the situations you face, every time you turn it on. That is often harder than it sounds. Let us know how everything comes out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LewnWorx Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 We are a bunch of gruff, tactless, "Old Soundmen" that speak directly and to the point. We don't make friends easily because we come across as antagonistic, but we do want to help. True dat. In fact, I'd bet that nearly every "do this, don't do that" that one finds in posts here is a direct result of one of us having done the "don't do that" and having lived to regret it. Old sound guys aren't smarter than new sound guys, they've just been beat up by more {censored}. In the end, we're really about avoiding pain and hassle, because even when the system IS working well, there's plenty of other {censored} we also would rather not have to deal with. In the ideal gig, the best case scenario is the one where the only issues you have are with the Performer's egos, ignorance and lack of ability to do their jobs correctly. Those "Ideal Gig" scenarios only come when you've made enough ill informed decisions on your own and have learned from them and no longer repeat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 AMEN, preach it brother! I could not agree more. I didn't learn what I know from a book, but I have a lot of miles on my shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 True dat. In fact, I'd bet that nearly every "do this, don't do that" that one finds in posts here is a direct result of one of us having done the "don't do that" and having lived to regret it. Old sound guys aren't smarter than new sound guys, they've just been beat up by more {censored}. In the end, we're really about avoiding pain and hassle, because even when the system IS working well, there's plenty of other {censored} we also would rather not have to deal with. In the ideal gig, the best case scenario is the one where the only issues you have are with the Performer's egos, ignorance and lack of ability to do their jobs correctly.Those "Ideal Gig" scenarios only come when you've made enough ill informed decisions on your own and have learned from them and no longer repeat them. And we've spent OUR money learning this so your tuition is free! I hope it works out for the OP, but I do get tired of "drive bys" purporting to be sincere, then going out of their way to ignore the advice of 5 to 10 people who give different opinions, but they are all based in practical experience and a case could be made for each. Instead the OP chooses a product that fits neither the budget nor the application. Even the recommendation of the manufacturer is ignored in that the system requires each player to have their own system and not just plug into one. Then to top it off, when some of us squawk about it a bit, the OP has the audacity to chide us and act insulted. ...... really? Heck, if you are hell bent on ignoring the advice after getting it the least you could do is have the courtesy to just thank us and then do whatever you want without telling us what that is. OK, I feel better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LewnWorx Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 AMEN, preach it brother! I could not agree more. I didn't learn what I know from a book, but I have a lot of miles on my shoes. When I told my folks I was not going the corporate americana route all those years ago and instead was going on tour to mix monitors, they asked me what I was going to have to fall back on if it didn't work out. I told em the the truth. My ass. And since then, my ass has gotten a lot of miles on it. We are not exactly the most sane group of people on the planet, but we probably have a much higher "opinions based on first hand experience" factor than most of the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 And we've spent OUR money learning this so your tuition is free! That is what really upsets me when people that seem to be understanding just go off and make the same mistakes we were warning them about. I was thinking about listing all the gear i purchased over the last 30+ years and do a cost estimate. I guarantee that I wasted well over $10,000 probably closer to $40,000 on gear that I hated from the get go or for gear that just didn't quite do what I was hoping it would do. Why won't noobs trust us? Are we just too gruff and tactless? Yes - that's probably it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 There is an echo in here..in here...in here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LewnWorx Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 This is a bit like teaching a pig to sing. It's a frustrating waste of your time, and annoys the hell out of the pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted May 10, 2012 Members Share Posted May 10, 2012 Why won't noobs trust us? Are we just too gruff and tactless? Yes - that's probably it... I doubt it. You guys aren't tactless, per se, but I will get to that in a second. First, let me try to beseech the OP to PLEASE listen to what is being said here. We are all musicians and/or sound people (some of us, like me, JUST a musician lol) and when you come to a forum like this, you should come with your preconceptions and prejudices. Notice I DID NOT say to leave them at the door? Why? Well, because your preconceptions, whether erroneous or accurate are a fantastic starting point on your road to learning more. They provide questions for you to ask. I am newer than you are, Tat2Bbluez and just joined and started posting. I, too, am looking for answers. I read through this entire thread and while I see why you became a little defensive or perhaps insulted, I really believe that you are taking what people are saying in a manner that is NOT meant by the people who are trying to help you. For instance, when they posted worriedly about your purchase of the Bose system, instead of trying to open up and figure out if perhaps there is some wisdom in their words, you became sort of passive-aggressive and said. "Well, I see that I hit a nerve!" Honestly? When I read that I did a literal facepalm, NOT an Internet smiley one. Because while you may have thought you hit a nerve because everyone seemingly ganged up on you, the way I interpreted what was being told to you was that you may have made a serious error in judgment in your purchase. Now, for the record? Even not knowing a whole lot about sound, I believe very strongly that Bose makes highly over-rated, over-priced, over-marketed, over-hyped gear that you could do a great deal better in ANY price range Bose sells at with other gear, whether we are talking about JBL, EV, QSC, or whatever. Yet, in your mind, you read their critique as some knee-jerk reaction based on these fine people being "insulted." But I have to ask you, Tat2bluez, and I ask with the utmost respect: Did you ever consider that what they were telling you might just be solid information gleaned from YEARS of experience? Look, I can't speak for everyone, and I know this post has long since passed both the preachy AND tl;dr points, but I have to be honest. Their intent was NEVER to belittle you nor to degrade you. They were offering you solid, educated, well thought-out advice, just like they are doing in the thread I just made today! All day long, people in this forum have been CORRECTING MY WRONG preconceptions, but I am not shutting down or accusing everyone of being "hit in a nerve" by my incisive n00b views!! That is the difference. And as a result, I am LEARNING A GREAT DEAL from these folks. Please, if you value your music even HALF as much as it seems like you do, check your feelings at the door and let these people educate you. That's what I'm doing. In short, jwlusso, no, you are not tactless. You guys are just probably fed up with people who come in here looking for answers yet completely ignore everything you offer to them in terms of your expertise and knowledge and then they get defensive and righteously indignant about it. Not saying that this is what Tat2bluez is doing, at least not intentionally. However, I can see how it comes off that way because I believe that she asked great questions but failed to check her "feelings" at the door, which when you are looking for an education is vital! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members donkey 12 Posted May 11, 2012 Members Share Posted May 11, 2012 I do not know if this is any consolation, but I for one have learned a lot from asking questions on this forum and just reading other threads. I tell you this so that you know that there are some of us who do listen and learn from what you have experienced and are willing to share. I have learned a lot about live sound from this forum and my duo sounds much better than it would have if I had not come here with my questions and curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted May 12, 2012 Members Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'm one of the people that have learned a lot here. I also got beat up at times because the stuff I was being told was polar opposite to what I believed. In every case, I learned something. I did a lot of things wrong even after I believed I had all the answers. I hang out here to learn more than I'm here to help. I do try to share what I've learned but I am positive I have more to learn than I have to teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 12, 2012 Members Share Posted May 12, 2012 The experts here are a great resource of information. WAY better than any sales person you will likely ever see. It is OK to disagree with them. Lord knows I do from time to time, but you have to engage in a serious discussion. It is alright for people to disagree. The fact that EVERY person on this forum (active band members, sound professionals, etc) are horrified with the selection of the Bose L1 system for the OP's intended purpose SHOULD have resulted in some serious reconsideration of the decision made. That the reaction was a rebuke and dismissal of the advice given, shows a contempt for the advice given. It is the contempt that is being attacked. My band has extraordinary sound and successful gigs largely due to the advice I have gotten here, and I am FAR from being a noob in sound reinforcement. In fact, I am able to understand engineering aspects of sound that are beyond the vast majority of band people. The experience of the pros here trump my engineering degree though, and I highly respect their opinions. No one here minds being argued with, it is the contempt that brings on the firefight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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