Getting started

[Craig Vecchione]

Keep in mind that you can get a single speaker to use for informal rehearsals, and still hire a sound company for your gigs. Even if you wind up getting something else for gigs, the speaker can be used as someone's wedge monitor, used only for rehearsals, etc and won't be wasted.

[Louis Schwartz]

I'd add that there are sound companies that offer a "rent to buy" program, where the rental costs over time can be applied to the purchase of a new or used rental system. That might not include the cost of hiring someone to run the system you rent (also a key learning experience if you help with set up and ask a lot of questions without being annoying), but it could still make for a nice discount when the time comes to finally invest in a system of your own.

 

So a good powered speaker and a small mixer for now for rehearsals, and a few rentals when the gigging starts (especially if you can hook up with a "rent to buy" situation). That will prepare you for a more serious investment when the time comes for that.

 

When I was starting out with my band a few years back, I skipped the rental phase because my budget seemed too tight at the time, but as it turned out, I bought a system that soon enough turned out to be the wrong thing for my longer term purposes. If I had spent some of the money I spent on that first system on the rental of a few different kinds of system over a series of gigs, along with some help from an experienced sound provider, I would have been able to spend the rest--and the new funds that were coming in from gigs--on something like what I'm using now (and very happily) a lot sooner. And I wouldn't be stuck as I am right now with some older equipment that has lost a lot of it's value (I can't get back anything close to even the used price I paid for it all just a few years ago, even though it's still in great condition). I just didn't know any better, not even really understanding some of the advice I was getting at the time.

 

Just food for thought.

 

Louis

[Unalaska]

There's a lot of good info from regulars here, we all have 20/20 hindsight and yet we'd all do things a little different. 3 decent powered speakers with 2 stands and a small mackie dfx6 type mixer will get you quite far. Consider this a vocal only pa for now, let guitars, keys, drums handle stuff live for a while. Band members change, directions change, buying a big ass,pa over a few years is hard, like hitting a moving target hard. But getting a few basic things that can grow into a larger system if that's where it's going is a good start. Oh, and buy a 58

[OneEng]

 

Are the stands a must from startup, or can I get away with waiting on them until we're ready to start gigging? I know we'll have to have them up of the floor for shows, but could they potentially sit on the floor (facing me) in rehearsal do you think? I know the mixer will end up taking the whole band, would it maybe be better to buy one that would work for everyone initially? I won't likely be buying it right away anyway. That one does actually sound really good, but for the difference in cost it's sometimes worth it to buy the one you'll end up needing, yes?

 

So on a start up basis, what I'll likely need is a set of speakers, a mixer, and a subwoofer and everything can be upgraded and added to as necessary after, is what I'm getting. Or am I way off base?

 

Thank you all by the way.

 

For practice, if it is your intention to use the speaker as a monitor, then a stand is not needed; however, in a live venue it is a must. The HF simply won't travel through bodies so it has to be elevated to project out into the audience.

 

As for the mixer, if you can afford it, then sure, a good 16 channel mixer will grow with the band. If not, having a good mixer with fewer channels will be night and day better than not having a mixer at all. Furthermore, my recommendation for a starter mixer for a full band would likely be the DL1608 at this time (a digital mixer with all efx and processing built in. Completely operated from an iPad). These run around $800.00 (and you need an iPad), are small, and easy to setup and run. These are great for mixing from stage (which most bar bands end up doing).

 

Keep in mind, that putting everything through the PA is going to cost alot more. Microphones, stands, cables, etc are not free either.

 

On one hand there is the saying "buy once, cry once" ..... meaning not to bother with bottom-feeder gear only to find it sounds like crap and/or breaks easily only to then purchase something more expensive that you really needed in the first place.

 

On the other hand, you don't need a Meyer sound rig with an iLive mix system either.

 

Good solid gear can be purchased used, then sold for nearly what you paid for it. Just be sure to buy solid gear, not crap.

 

[Dogoth]

These are all good suggestions. At least your budget is realistic. I'd guess that with the genera of music that you do, you will need a stage monitor (you said you didn't want to wreck your voice - this is how to keep it healthy). As to the mic you've chosen. Yes it might sound great on your voice in a lower volume or recording situation but in a high volume live application, several other factors come into play. Handling noise & feedback/bleed rejection. F.I. I love the sound of the Neumann KMS series vocal mics BUT other than for low volume (think acoustic folk or jazz trio) they are a sound persons nightmare (horrible feedback issues). I don't know anything about the Lewitt MTP 540 DM (reviews are favorable but that really means little) but it may or may not end up being the best tool for the job in a high volume live situation.

 

That said, it sounds like you are on the road to putting together a nice club PA. Don't forget the peripherals like Tripods, XLR connector cables, AC extension cords, other patch cables, mic stands & mic clips, gaff tape, board tape, sharpies, flashlite, inexpensive outlet tester (just to name a few). Think about getting a suitable box for these (good quality roll around luggage from a thrift store often works well - Pelican cases are the best but $$$ :-). These are all part of what makes for a good sound system. A failure of just one cheap part can mean a go or no go for your show so don't cheap out (also beware of the marketing hype as some of this stuff is WAY overpriced). I'd recommend talking to Mark at Audiopile http://www.audiopile.net/ as he carries most of these goodies at a good price (EWI gear RULES :-). I've ordered many times from him and can attest to the quality 2 bucks ratio. This wasn't meant to be a shameless plug for the guy, he & his wife Liz are just great people.

 

Good luck. Keep us posted.

[cappttenron]

I think a lot of good ideas have been presented here. I think because you need to rehearse one powered speaker a QSC k or Yamaha DXR 10 or 12 makes a lot of sense. IMO it makes a lot sense to rehearse with what you play out with. That way you get used to the equipment and you can use it for small gigs when you don't need to mic up the whole band just the vocals and your guitar. I would highly recommend the Allen and Heath ZED10 as its my go to small mixer and I love it. I own a Mackie small live mixer and the ZED is better. If you are doing something where you are being paid enough to hire a pro do it. I think some others here have mentioned a Shure 58 or even the Shure Beta 58. These are industry standards you almost cannot go wrong with them. You could buy all three pieces for under 1100 dollars with some cables. Add a second speaker later that can serve double duty as a monitor. We used to rehearse all the time with one powered speaker and it sounded good. Personally unless you want to go into the sound business I would suggest the band pooling their funds to buy subs and a bigger board. I know this may be hard to believe but seldom do bands stay together for a long period of time. Another option is rent subs and a bigger board when required and use your tops for small gigs and rehearsals. But you still need someone to run sound that knows what they are doing.

 

Here is my personal observation on QSC K series and the Yamaha DXR series. Both are excellent but with my slightly damaged hearing the QSC sound brighter to me and if you audition both I think you will find out which you prefer quickly. That said I purchased the Yamaha and have been happy. You are lucky that they have such nice powered speakers now at a reasonable cost.

 

Here is a normal progression that I have watched many new bands go thru. I will skip the box mixer and two cheap speaker stage for you.

 

 

Step 1 a good powered speaker, small mixer and mics, cables, stand

Step 2 a pair of good powered speaker, small mixer and mics, cables, stands

Step 3 a pair of good powered speakers, monitors, Subs, bigger mixer, mics , cables stands,

Step 4 you have a hired sound company and you just show up : )

 

Of course this is simplified and I have left out the drummer having a drinking problem and the singer being a diva stages.

 

 

[LeahIsHazy]

That's very true. Monitors make a world of difference as far as being able to play with - instead of over - everyone. A speaker is definitely a must have item, I think.

[Audiopile]

 

[quote=cappttenron;n31262678I will skip the box mixer and two cheap speaker stage for you.

 

 

Yes, I believe her mind-set/experience/understanding/business model is well beyond that league.

[wesg]

Renting equipment is a great way to discover what features you want/need. Somebody said you're in Toronto? As they said, get thee to Long & McQuade, they have half a dozen locations in the GTA. I like the location on Bloor St. W. at lot...about 1km west of Spadina.

 

May I suggest you rent the following for a month:

NX55P-2 speaker $45

MS603 mic stand $3

Shure Beta 58 mic $22

25-35' mic cord $2?

 

Stand the speaker on its feet facing you and the band -- this is different than the traditional monitor wedge setup, but it will let more people hear it well. Make sure it's about 10 feet away from you so that you can hear it properly. In the vertical orientation, the NX55P's dispersion pattern gives 50 degrees vertical coverage and 80 degrees of horizontal coverage.

 

Next, plug the microphone into the "MIC in" jack on the back of the speaker. Turn the green treble and bass knobs to 12 o'clock, engage the 100Hz HPF (LF rolloff button in), enable the mixer (button in), turn the red line and mic knobs to zero, blue sensitivity (level) knob to 12 o'clock, and turn the speaker on. Have somebody turn up the red mic knob while you're singing into the microphone until it's a good volume.

 

If you get feedback, point the microphone so that the ten o'clock or two o'clock position points at the speaker (other models of microphone need the back, or 12 o'clock position, pointed at the speaker for best results). If they give you a mic in a box or "pencil case", it might also have the piece of paper that comes with that is shaped like a tear drop. This piece of paper can be placed over the mic ball to point at the ideal location for your speaker (the direction that minimizes feedback).

 

This should give you more than acceptable results for a small band rehearsal, and you will spend only $75 to discover if you like this setup or not, with lots and lots of time to evaluate. You can also plug a guitar or piano into the speaker and use the line knob to adjust the level.

 

Wes

[cappttenron]

I would rent a small mixer with effects too. Most singers like a little reverb on their vocal.

[wesg]

Good thinking about the reverb, Ron. Although personally I am not a big fan of reverb in the monitors.

 

The Yorkville PGM-8 at $22 a month would do the job, although the Soundcraft EFX8 at $30 a month might sound better (Lexicon effects) and be a bit more "industry standard".

 

OP - you'd also need another mic cable if you get the mixer.

 

FWIW, this is the sheet I'm reading prices off of: https://www.long-mcquade.com/imgs/se...al%20rates.pdf

 

Wes