Members abzurd Posted May 20, 2014 Members Share Posted May 20, 2014 JBL says the internal crossover of the PRX718XLF is 100 Hz DSP controlled 48 dB slope. OK I get that. Then they say the loop out crossover is 120 Hz analog 24 dB slope. So does that mean the crossover to cut off the lows is a different frequency and slope than the one bringing on the highs? This isn't something I've ever seen before. I'm assuming this was done for a reason and JBL thinks there is a benefit. What are the pros and cons of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 20, 2014 Members Share Posted May 20, 2014 Remember it's not the way the electrical filter operates but the resulting acoustic result that actually counts. There's nothing inherently wrong with using asymmetrical filters. In theory a steeper slope will give you a bit more protection to over excursion but it will come in practice with the penalty of ringing which will sound bad and may in fact create enough extra output to actually increase the chances of over excursion. I would assume that the engineers decided to do it the way they did for a good reason. At least to them it was a good reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 21, 2014 Members Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm not quite sure of the benefit of using an analog high pass output when coupled with the latency of a DSP based low pass output. It seems like more work than necessary and not a great way to marry up one system to another... except that I can see 2 wrongs making a right here... IF the top cabinet also has DSP, and it uses the same platform, the latency correction may be taken care of in the top cabinet's processing. There may also be a HPF in the top cabinets that works with the 24dB slope of the HP out, and the underlap may be the correction for nominal sub gain above unity. IMO, there are better ways to handle this that would be more universal when using other manufacture's tops, or mixing and matching with some of their other powered speaker products, but like Don said... to them it was a good reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 21, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm voting for, "we happened to have these parts in stock". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 21, 2014 Members Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm voting for' date=' "we happened to have these parts in stock".[/quote'] Really? You really think JBL designs a completey new amp and processing unit for a new line of speakers based on left over parts in stock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 21, 2014 Members Share Posted May 21, 2014 Make that "completely". Why in the world won't this site let me edit my own post for spelling????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 21, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2014 I'm only notified of threads I start.... not anything I'm subscribed to. Not anything I respond to. Not private messages. I have to rummage through threads to see updates. It's why I only come here a few times a week instead of several times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 21, 2014 Members Share Posted May 21, 2014 Make that "completely". Why in the world won't this site let me edit my own post for spelling????? Because they used parts that they happened to have left in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 22, 2014 Members Share Posted May 22, 2014 Because they used parts that they happened to have left in stock Good one! I'm glad my JBL equipment performs better than this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted May 22, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Really? You really think JBL designs a completey new amp and processing unit for a new line of speakers based on left over parts in stock? No, not really. I was joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted May 22, 2014 Members Share Posted May 22, 2014 No, not really. I was joking. I suspected that, but you know it's hard to tell without a smiley:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 24, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 24, 2014 A little Memorial weekend G.A.S. and now I have a pair in my garage.... sigh. I've wanted "real subs" for a long time. These supposedly are +/-3dB to 35Hz, which is half an octave lower than anything I've ever owned. They sound ok as I fart around in the garage. I have a wedding tomorrow and will probably use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 25, 2014 Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 A little Memorial weekend G.A.S. and now I have a pair in my garage.... sigh. I've wanted "real subs" for a long time. These supposedly are +/-3dB to 35Hz' date=' which is half an octave lower than anything I've ever owned. They sound as I fart around in the garage. I have a wedding tomorrow and will probably use them. [/quote'] LOL! I would be interested in your assessment. My 618S-XLF's have been quite good to me. I really like the clean punch they have. I would say that it took some getting used to this kind of sound since both my folded horn's and the CVA118's I had been using were both much "woofier". Now I find the boomy sound of most subs "less musical". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 I'm taking off in a bit for a wedding where I'll use them for the first time. The weight is manageable for one person, but the size not so much. I'm only 5' 7" so it's hard to grab the handles and move it solo. I did it, but I'd rather not. Check out the size difference from what I've been using. I usually use 2 of the small subs, per side, but not always. I'm sure I'll notice the difference, I better, but I have to say pound for pound the little FBT Vertus subs are pretty darn good. Nice, the pic loads sideways.... why would I expect anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 25, 2014 Members Share Posted May 25, 2014 I am 6 ft and can handle one by myself ..... but I prefer not to. It isn't the weight, but rather (as you pointed out) the size. I can't see the pic's abzurd. Hope your wedding was a success. Next month I have a big workout for me. 3 weeks in a row ending with a gig for the Scorpions (the motorcycle organization .... not the band ). I should get plenty o of opportunities to carry my XLF's around. I replaced my VHT tube amp and cabs (which was the heaviest thing left in the band) and bought a Kemper (11 lbs). I am looking forward to my new (even smaller and lighter) stage setup. I would be surprised if your new XLF's don't have a noticeable increase in bass output over your old rig. Let us know how it went! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 26, 2014 Strange I can see the pic in the post. Oh well. I just got back from the wedding in Dayton. It was going to be in the lobby of the Memorial Hall there. That would have been 50 ft ceilings and all marble and stone. The coordinator was telling me something from 20 feet away and I couldn't understand her because of the echo in the room. It got moved to the basement, which was carpeted with a 10' drop ceiling. Anyway, the sound was exactly what I was hoping for. Solid thud without the pronounced 100-125Hz, at least not in this room. I wish I would have bought the 618XLFs several years ago. I used them under the RCF 522A tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 27, 2014 Members Share Posted May 27, 2014 Strange I can see the pic in the post. Oh well. I just got back from the wedding in Dayton. It was going to be in the lobby of the Memorial Hall there. That would have been 50 ft ceilings and all marble and stone. The coordinator was telling me something from 20 feet away and I couldn't understand her because of the echo in the room. It got moved to the basement, which was carpeted with a 10' drop ceiling. Anyway, the sound was exactly what I was hoping for. Solid thud without the pronounced 100-125Hz, at least not in this room. I wish I would have bought the 618XLFs several years ago. I used them under the RCF 522A tops. Sounds like a really nice combination of speakers to me. How were they in comparison to other subs you have owned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 27, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 27, 2014 How were they in comparison to other subs you have owned? Significantly better. I know room modes can make the 100-125Hz get too peaky sometimes so I can't say for sure, but I was able to take the large cuts out of that range last weekend. It was a super solid low end. The guys were screwing around with a song we don't even do, Pink Floyd's Breathe, while I was finishing up line checks and it was pretty darn cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 27, 2014 Members Share Posted May 27, 2014 I found that the band just sounded better with them.... tighter ..... cleaner, more polished. I think that lots of other subs I have used or seen used have lots of the woof frequencies, and not so much the other sub frequencies. They didn't sound as tight and defined .... musical. I have compared them directly (and not in a show room) with KW181's, passive LR36 folded horns, and CVA118's. They are my favorite of the bunch. Glad you aren't having buyers remorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 28, 2014 Author Members Share Posted May 28, 2014 I found that the band just sounded better with them.... tighter ..... cleaner, more polished. I think that lots of other subs I have used or seen used have lots of the woof frequencies, and not so much the other sub frequencies. They didn't sound as tight and defined .... musical. I have compared them directly (and not in a show room) with KW181's, passive LR36 folded horns, and CVA118's. They are my favorite of the bunch. Glad you aren't having buyers remorse Agreed. As I was driving them home I was thinking...I don't need 2 more subs. I was wrong. Biggest improvement to my sound in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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