Yamaha Motif XS6 Synth - Now with Conclusions, and Motif XF "Coda"

[Support Guy]

As of 02/09/08 the mLAN tools for MAC OSX version 1.1.4 brings complete mLAN functionality to the MAC with graphic patchbay and significantly reduced CPU load (spiking eliminated), full 8 core compatibility and legacy
(S400) product support.
Early reports indicate that the driver is very stable and very robust and now on par with the WinXP driver with the exception of external wordclock support, which is expected in the next update by the end of the year.

For more information go
here:

[Anderton]

That's great news, thanks for the update!

[mocity]

What are your thoughts about adding mLan firewire to a Vista system already connected to a firewire audio interface (RME Fireface 800 in my case)?

Granted I am not an engineer, but my experience in the past ohhh 8 years is this:

Firewire/USB Audio interface + Windows + Cubase = Headache

Let's agree not every Windows system can handle Firewire/USB audio interfaces uneventfully without tweaks. We all have seen countless posts by users who either get fed up and choose a PCI internal solution, OR spend forever tweaking Windows to get the driver to play nice with Cubase without clicks and pops and other hair-pulling stress--that frankly, a musician should NOT have to deal with imho.

Personally, it took me quite a while to get my current Vista system to play nice with my RME Fireface 800 firewire audio interface (and it still hiccups now and then, like every Windows-based system in the known world). Granted mileage varies and I'm sure there are people out there, maybe even Yamaha itself, that has enjoyed technical bliss with their firewire/usb interfaces since the day they plugged them in, but realistically that does not happen to everyone.. right? We know that.

This is going somewhere I promise..

So now that my Vista system is stable, I am considering adding mLan so I can fast track Motif pattern tracks directly into Cubase on discrete tracks 1:1 (since you are no longer making an output expander

Last time I used mLan with my ES8 and XP, it was a disaster. I am now skeptical about investing in mLan again because:

A) My Vista system is stable and I hate to disrupt it
B) I have never seen a stable Windows system with TWO separate firewire interfaces

What do you say to a person in my position who loves his RME Fireface and will not part with it, but also wants to try mLan? Have you personally tested Windows Vista systems using both mLan and a firewire audio interface in Cubase 4? My machine is plenty powerful so CPU and RAM, etc are not issues.

I am very curious to know what you think about mLan living happily with an firewire audio interface within Cubase. To me, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[Anderton]

Well I'm not a Yamaha guy, but I can speak to my experiences with FireWire in general:

1. Go to the web site of the manufacturer who makes the FireWire peripheral you want to use, and find out what chip set they recommend.
2. Get a FireWire card (e.g., PCI) with that chip set and install it. Don't use the motherboard's FireWire.
3. Don't get a combo USB/FireWire card. Don't daisy-chain anything on the FireWire bus.
4. Use an AC adapter with FireWire devices, even if they seem to work just fine with bus power.

The same general principles also apply to USB 2.0. If you DO use the motherboard's FireWire port, make sure your motherboard has the latest BIOS.

I generally find FireWire to be a PITA until you get the right card with the right chip set, and then everything falls into place.

[mocity]

1. Go to the web site of the manufacturer who makes the FireWire peripheral you want to use, and find out what chip set they recommend. 2. Get a FireWire card (e.g., PCI) with that chip set and install it. Don't use the motherboard's FireWire. 3. Don't get a combo USB/FireWire card. Don't daisy-chain anything on the FireWire bus. 4. Use an AC adapter with FireWire devices, even if they seem to work just fine with bus power.

 

Agreed. Of course having stabilized my system, rest assured I have done all these things and--unfortunately--have intimate knowledge of each.

 

I generally find FireWire to be a PITA until you get the right card with the right chip set, and then everything falls into place.

 

Agree 100% in principle with respect to ONE firewire interface... but not TWO.. and that's what my post is about.

 

Many thanks,

 

mj

[Anderton]

Okay...got it. I just checked the CEntrance web site because they make an aggregating driver for Windows, and I remembered something about a Vista-compatible version coming out in September. Unfortunately, it's only for CEntrance interfaces, so I guess you're out of luck with the RME.

 

For the record, as to two FireWire interfaces, I have used two interfaces successfully with Sonar, but only using WDM drivers - not ASIO.

[mocity]

Thanks, Craig, Good info. I may take the plunge and see what happens. It's hard to fathom Cubase and Windows liking this pairing, but.. stranger things have happened.

[Anderton]

Just make sure you create a system restore point before installing any more drivers! That accessory has saved my butt many times.

[mocity]

No doubt! I confess to being guilty of not turning it back on before doing experiments such as these, so thanks for the reminder

[PhilMuller]

I don't know is this was covered but how do you send a Multi-Program change while in Multi Mode? I don't want to send program changes to voices on each of the MIDI channels in the Multi, I want to send a program change to select a different performacne or Multi.

[Anderton]

I'm pretty sure program change commands affect only voice selection. However, given the huge number of voices, the Motif also responds to Bank Select commands.

[Anderton]

We mentioned resampling briefly, but let's give it a little more detail.

 

Resampling is an option on the Sampling Setup page: Instead of sampling from the audio input or a signal arriving via mLAN from a computer, resampling listens to the output of the XS6. Other options are the same as for sampling: You can sample in stereo mono, choose the sampling rate, etc.

 

Resampling has a number of uses, but my favorite is to make permanent changes to an existing sample, such as building processing into a sample rather than having it applied to the sample. Then whenever you call up that sample, all processing will already be in place, as part of the sample.

 

Resampling is also really useful with the onboard vocoder, because you don't HAVE to use an exernal mic as the modulator - you can modulate an onboard sound with, say, a drum pattern and create some very cool rhythmic effects that way.

[Anderton]

An important element of the XS6 is the Phrase, which is a short MIDI sequence containing something like a bass line, hi-hat pattern, and the like. Think of them as "subsets" of a Pattern, as you can string different phrases together to create fuller patterns.

Although the XS6 doesn't come with preset phrases, you can create a user library of 256 phrases. However, what makes phrases of more than passing interest is that there are a lot of phrase-related "jobs." For example, you can copy a phrase from one pattern to another - useful if you come up with, say, a kick and snare phrase that you want to use in several patterns that have different hi-hat parts. Other functions include the ability to mix phrases and append one phrase to another, as well as split a phrase into two separate phrases. You can also "swap" phrases between different presets.

Phrases also have a relationship with Songs. For example, suppose you create a song and really like a particular bass line, and you want to use that bass line in other sections of the song. You can take just that specific part of the song and put it into a phrase, and conversely, take a phrase and insert it directly into a song without having to use it in a pattern first.

Of course, you can edit phrase data, as well as replace it by recording over existing phrase data.

[Anderton]

Time for a quick re-cap…

So far we’ve covered the control surface and real-time control, the display and interface, connections and I/O, setting the XS6 up as part of a network, remote control, lots of audio examples, performances, sounds of solo instruments and complete patterns, category searching, arpeggiation, direct performance recording, overview of the architecture, editing procedures with screens, the editor software, assignable function buttons and knobs, articulations, performance and song modes, sampling, resampling, sequencing, looping, and effects. We’ve updated the OS, installed RAM and mLAN, and been fortunate enough to have some extremely helpful comments from Athan Billias, Phil Clendeninn, and Avery Burdette, all A-level (and very dedicated) Yamaha people.

In the process, we’ve accumulated almost 37,000 page views – phenomenal for a synth review – a lot of kudos, and some great insights from users. So at this point, I want to move on to the final piece of the puzzle: Integration with Cubase AI. This isn’t to say that we won’t cover more on the synth itself, but this is a pro review, not a rewrite of the manual, and we’ve pretty much covered the highlights of the box itself (including those gorgeous instrument sounds). But let me emphasize that when I say highlights, I mean highlights – as I said at the outset, this is a very, very deep instrument!

Onward to Cubase...

[Anderton]

The last remaining piece of the puzzle is the Cubase AI integration with the Motif. The official Steinberg story on Cubase AI 4 is here, but I can give some initial reactions.

First of all, it's a subset of Cubase 4.5, so you don't need the AI version if you already have Cubase 4.5. Although I use Cubase 4.5, I'll be testing the Motif SX with the AI version as that's what comes with the keyboard. However, there's another angle here: The Steinberg hardware controllers are also compatible with Cubase AI 4, and they're up next for a Pro Review. So, as we wind down here by getting into the integration, we'll be crossfading on the integration front with another part of the same system. This should be interesting, as the most appealing part of hardware/software integration happens when there are multiple things to integrate.

Overall, most Cubase 4 users wouldn't miss too much with AI. What I miss the most is the Play Order track and the ability to use hitpoints and slices (although AI still does audio warp real time processing). The only instrument is the HALion One, but you do get a decent collection of effects. As expected, you don't get surround but I doubt that if that's a huge deal for most of you.

Since there's been a computer change around here, I need to re-install the MIDI drivers...probably a good thing anyway, as they've probably been updated!

[Bensbeenjamin]

That thing looks sick, with all the buttons on there you could probably write a whole album, including guitar's, bass, drums, keys, and whatever other effects you'd want to add. Not to mention just creating different stuff every single day, depending on what mood your in.

[jpondhawk]

I am new to this forum and to using the Motif XS. I am clueless as to how to sequence. What I need to do is to somehow transfer some midi files from an old computer to the Motif sequencer so it will play the midi track in one of 16 tracks. The computer has a sound card with midi out and in. I could isolate the track I want to use but how do I record that midi track from the computer to the sequencer of the Motif? Is it possible?

I need to use audio samples in the sequence. Example, a backwards audio track that has to come in towards the end of the song. I'm clueless how to work that into the sequence. Would it require a separate track or can it be edited into a track that has an assigned voice?

Is there a site that can give me a step by step instruction of how to sequence on the XS?

I was also wondering if there was a way to play a sampled sound (live) that lasts a minute and a half (or a looped sample) assigned to one key on the keyboard without having to keep the sustain pedal down to keep it playing after I hit the key? I have isolated a key on a voice (flute) for the sample to play. If I keep the sustain pedal down to allow the sample to play it affects the flute melody I am playing live at the same time.

Any help is appreciated. Anyone know a Motif guru in the Chicago area or a Yamaha Motif rep I can contact?

[Support Guy]

The answers to all your questions can be found in the "Behind the manual" section on this website:
http://motifator.com/

[jpondhawk]

The answers to all your questions can be found in the "Behind the manual" section on this website: http://motifator.com/

 

 

Thanks! I'll check it out.

[IkeTurner]

Man let me tell you something. I had to get rid of my Motif XS6 man. I'll tell you why. I like sequencing on hardware. That is why I bought the thing.. because it's a workstation, right? I was planning on using the heck out of the onboard sequencer because man I had an ES7 and I could write music so fast on that thing it was crazy!!! I thought the XS6 would even be better. Man was I wrong. That thing grinded my work flow to a halt Jack. You know why? Because the screen lags. The screens do not change rapidly like the ES. They have a delay in redrawing. Same with button presses like if you press job, f1 undo, then enter buttons real fast. The board can't keep up with me. Too slow. So I had to sell it last year and then had to wait five months to buy a dang ES again. So now I got my ES and life is good again. Maybe I will get a XS rack cus I did like the sounds

 

proper

[zzzxtreme]

IkeTurner, i want a hardware sequencer too. Is the screen lag that bad? How many seconds?

[Support Guy]

Mr. Anderton's post #38 has videos of the screen redraw speed. Mr. Turner is in a small group that do not represent the majority of Motif XS owners. He is welcome and entitled to his opinion...
By the way, the VST editor was uploaded and made available yesterday and the new Motifator 3.0 site launched...its exciting stuff!!!
Check it out:
www.motifator.com

[Anderton]

That's great news. I've been looking forward to testing out the XS6 with Cubaes 5...I'll going away for a week, but when I come back, that's very high on the to do list.

BTW went to Motifator.com to get some more info about using the Motif XS as a plug-in with non-VST3 compatible hosts (seems you can't, right?). Anyway, I like the redesign a lot - very clean and easy to navigate.

As to screen redraws...I think the video pretty much shows what's happening. I don't find the redraw problematic but as the cliche goes YMMV.

[mrdelurk]

I was going to buy a XS Rack, so I went to the store to check it out. The sounds are there all right, but accessing all the deep features can get really tedious with its only 6 knobs, compared to the ample hands-on knob, slider & button acreage of the XS-8 keyboard.

Ah but I don't want *yet* another 88-key workstation keyboard, I have three already... how about a tabletop XS version, an XS box with all the knobs and sliders, etc.? (Wedge shaped like the M3-M so both could be used side by side... :-)

Ah well, one can always dream

[mrdelurk]

Well, I just managed to save the entire synth contents (file with a .XOA file extension) to my computer.

 

 

Craig, I heard that the onboard Yamaha XS arpeggios are MIDI sequence files, essentially. Is it possible to transfer them to the computer and back, then? (For editing, & library management.)

 

:idea:This is potentially huge. The first synth where arpeggio management is easy and not locked down will see the arpeggios (patterns, styles, etc.) from all the other synths and programs in the world brought to it.