Line 6 XD-V70 Digital Wireless Mic - Now with Conclusions!

[Anderton]

Oh - I should also mention that one of my attempts to "break" it was to put the receiver right next to a 2.4GHz wireless phone base, and used the phone to call my cell so that the wireless phone base would be active. It didn't make any difference to the XD-V70.

[dboomer]

Nope. 3 shows on it now and no issues whatsoever. The standard issue Line 6 element is very nice. Actually, it's the most articulate dynamic microphone I've ever used, wired or wireless.

You don't expect anybody to actually believe that do you

The L6 "model" is an example of what the combination of a good dynamic mic element combined with DSP can do. When we did all the measurements necessary to model the other mics we did we realized that mechanics can only go so far in the performance of a mic. Sooner or later you just run out of what you can achieve. But we hold an unfair advantage ...we have DSP at our disposal ... so using DSP we just made a mic better than it can be made by mechanics and materials alone.

[dboomer]

... in my rider (along with only orange M&Ms, Perrier, and multiple nubiles in the dressing room). Okay, I'm kidding about the last part....

 

 

You mean the part about the M&M's right?

[abzurd]

Here's a tune from last Saturday. Lead vocal is the XD-V70. No modelling used, -2 db cut at 200Hz and 465Hz. A little de-essing from the VoiceLive 2. Bass and guitar are both on Line 6 X2 wireless systems.

[Anderton]

So I'm trying to figure out how to demo the mic modeling via audio examples.

I could just talk or sing into the mic and choose the different models, but I'm not sure how much that would really show.

So I had another idea...run white noise through my studio monitors, set up the mic on a stand so it's in a consistent place, and record white noise through the various models. That might make it easier to hear frequency response changes.

Or...I could try the same thing with musical material, so you can hear how the models affect the music.

I'm leaning toward the white noise concept, but do any of you have suggestions as to the best way to demo this?

[jasonhollar]

Hey - another question.

 

If you've got the mic hot and the speakers up loud -- is there any thump or noise when muting the mic?

 

Then -- if you should accidentally push the mute button too long and power down -- does that make a bad noise?

 

Thinking that the internal "lock" feature will be a life saver when handing this thing out to amateurs and drunks for their toasts & speeches. You know, party guests!

 

Isn't true the first thing people do when you hand them a mic is look it over and flip the switch? Or press the button?!?

 

Also -- should the mic power down, will the same channel selected (7 in Craig's example) come back up -- or would you need to reset and reformat the whole thing?

 

Thanks so much -- just trying to make sure this thing is super easy to use...

 

J

 

PS - Abzurd - very strong vocals dude! The mic sounds crystal clear.

[Anderton]

Hey - another question. If you've got the mic hot and the speakers up loud -- is there any thump or noise when muting the mic? Then -- if you should accidentally push the mute button too long and power down -- does that make a bad noise?

Well, I figured the best way to answer your question was to record me talking into the mic while turning the power switch on and off, which is more of a disturbance to the system than merely muting. Judge for yourself!

Great question, by the way

[jasonhollar]

Wow - this forum rocks! Thanks for the custom hands-on demo!

 

Order placed. Expecting the mic next week.

 

Will report back with a home sound system test - then looking forward to some real gig tests in early October.

 

Cheers!

[dboomer]

Mutes the same way when you get out of range. It just goes silent, no big hiss leading up to it.

[Anderton]

Mutes the same way when you get out of range. It just goes silent, no big hiss leading up to it.

 

 

I do notice that when you turn it off, it just goes silent, as if noise-gated. When you turn the mic on, it fades in over what sounds like 100-200ms. I assume this is done on purpose specifically to eliminate the chances of pops or clicks.

 

So...does anyone have any ideas of the best way to show the modeling? If not, I guess I'll do white noise and program material examples.

[jasonhollar]

I don't have any technical expertise to compare mic models - but I do have a trusty Shure beta58a and a brand new Sennheiser 835.

 

I'll most certainly A/B/C those to see which one sounds best - very subjective I know.

 

Thanks again - J

[jasonhollar]

Just unpacked the box and set up the system this morning.

As reported by others here - very easy set up, intuitive channel & model selection. Buttons are a little hard to access because of my fat bass player fingers.

A brief scroll through the models brought me to the 835 which I am currently A/B'ing since I recently bought a new 835s. Quite hard to tell the difference between the two when everything is set equally. If anything, the Line6 may have a slightly hotter output.

The 58 and B58 models also sound true. I don't have much practical experience with the Audix and EV mics, but the Line6 models sound perfectly usable. Some are clearer and/or darker sounding than others.

I'm delighted the power and mute functions don't cause much noise at all the through the pa system -- this will allow me to keep the power setting on high output for maximum range -- and hopefully save battery life since I'll only be using it for periodic announcements and maybe a set or two with a vocalist.

Using the stock batteries now to test -- will see how long they last before I slap some Energizers or Duracells in there.

Otherwise, very pleased with the sound quality and range on the "home walk around" test. Will reserve my enthusiasm until after a few gigs next month to see how it works in the real world of marble floors, glass walls and tin ceilings in all these majestic venues we get to play in downtown Pittsburgh!

Otherwise -- so far so good!

J

PS - anybody have any suggestions for a smallish, durable road case for the receiver? The included mic/transmitter case is quite nice.

[abzurd]

So I've had several shows now with the new microphone and have some more feedback.

I continue to love the fidelity of the microphone. I used a Shure Beta 58 on it last night for the first 2 sets, then switched to the Line 6 capsule. I far and a way prefer the Line 6. It's much more articulate and has much less proximity effect (pronounced low end when you're right on the mic).

What I'm finding though is the Line 6 capsule is not perfect for my application. I use a harmonizer so I need to control what goes into the microphone as the harmonizer does it's thing with whatever input it receives. That means I need a very tight pick up pattern. The L6 capsule doesn't isolate well enough causing the harmonizer to get confused as it picks up my floor monitor, which has the harmonies in it. It doesn't happen all the time, but enough to be a problem. It can be solved by reducing the monitor volume and/or overall back line, but I'm not happy with my monitor at the volumes needed to make the harmonizer happy.

This issue isn't unique to the L6 capsule. I've never been able to successfully use condenser microphones with my setup either as they exhibit the same characteristic. I have a Shure SM86 capsule, which I like a lot, but I can only use it on large stages in the right setting like a dead room or outside.

I want to stress that this isn't going to be an issue for most people. The properties of the L6 capsule will work for most situations.

[abzurd]

I wanted to call to attention something that likely doesn't affect many, but it's a pretty important thing for those it does. Currently the Line 6 XD-V70 is not compatible with Audix capsules. They are working on the issue which involves reworking the Audix to Shure adapter ring. The issue there is the adapter ring isn't their invention, it's a product sold by Rat Sound.

The Audix OM5 element is the perfect choice for me due to the fact I use a harmonizer. It has an extremely tight pick up pattern and only picks up whats within an inch of it. This is a characteristic that modelling cannot duplicate as it's a mechanical difference and not something that can be solved with DSP.

I realize I'm in a small subset of folks that will put an Audix capsule on the microphone, but I'm pretty bummed as this was an advertised feature and the primary reason I purchased this microphone. To be clear, this does not affect the Shure capsules which work just fine with the Line 6 microphone.



Fingers crossed that they come up with a fix soon.

[abzurd]

Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention earlier. Don't trust the battery meter with rechargeables. I started the show last night with 6:40 showing and only got about 45 minutes into the first set before they went dead. I thought I had fresh rechargeables, but obviously that wasn't the case. I'm not saying don't use them, they work fine, but I mentioned before, the discharge rate is not the same on rechargeables as alkalines. Rechargeables are lower voltage, but more steady throughout their use. At the end though they fall off a cliff, giving very little notice before they die.

Ignore the battery meter for rechargeables and put freshly charged batteries in each use and you'll be fine.

[Anderton]

All excellent points. Thank you! I would never have thought to check pickup pattern with harmony synthesizing devices...

[Anderton]

...because she's on wireless internet a fair distance from the modem, and when I turn on the mic, she loses her internet connection. When I turn the mic off, it comes back on again.

So if you integrate wireless internet into your act, better check first! On the other hand in my studio, which is close to the modem, wireless still worked fine for my laptop.

As for me, I get a good feeling that the mic wins out over the wireless

[Anderton]

And now, it's time for the mic modeling thing. As no one came up with a better way to do comparison testing, I played back white noise and pink noise through an ADAM A7 speaker, placed the mic about 7 inches away, and pointed it toward the space between the woofer and tweeter.

As this implementation of vBulletin allows only five attachments per post, we'll have to split up the tests into groups of four.

Note that I've also attached an image that shows the level differences between the different models. To me, this indicates that Line 6 may have modeled the mic's "hotness" as well as the frequency response. Now, check out the white noise tests for the mics. The models are based on the A-T AE4100, Shure SM58, E/V N/D767, and Sennheiser e835.

[Anderton]

Here are white noise examples for the mics modeled on the Shure Beta 58, Line 6 what-they-think-a-good-mic-should-sound-like-mic, Audix OM5, and off (no modeling, just the mic capsule by itself).

[Anderton]

Here are the same listening tests as the previous examples, but using pink noise instead of white noise. There's an image with the relative levels, but you'll see they're pretty much the same as the white noise tests.

[Anderton]

Again, same roster as the white noise tests, but with pink noise.

[Anderton]

You can see the frequency response graphs for the various models on the Line 6 web site. However, just for kicks, I took the pink noise samples and analyzed them with the 1/3 octave response in Har-Bal. Given the unscientific, seat-of-the-pants nature of my testing, I was surprised that the correlation was pretty close.

[Anderton]

...and here are the response graphs for the other four models.

[abzurd]

While you were doing those last few entries, I took your original sound files and compared them. Not sure how helpful it is, but

[Anderton]

 

While you were doing those last few entries, I took your original sound files and compared them. Not sure how helpful it is, but But as I said early on, my favorite model is the Line 6 one anyway. Maybe that's just what sounds best with my voice, and YMMV. But, comparing the "off" position with the Line 6 model was instructive. Although the basic mic itself is fine, the enhancements are worthy of note. I'm going to head off for a while, then come back and present my conclusions...I think I've worked with the mic enough at this point that I have a pretty good handle on what's going on.