Power chords, hair and why we keyboardists should play guitar instead of guitarists

[Roald]

Recorded guitar stuff with a friend yesterday. I always have the same experiences with my 3-4 guitar playing friends that help me out recording stuff.

 

 

 

http://home.student.utwente.nl/r.a.lingbeek/index2.htm/JointFunkture/01-holier_shade_of_pale.mp3

 

 

 

BOTTOM LINE:

we keyboardists should play guitar really....because guitarists

 

 

[playing funk wah rhythm style]

1) play either the guitar in tempo. Or operate the wahwah in tempo. But not at the same time. So, you have to cut and paste an in-tempo wahwah track yourself afterwards

 

 

2) at the refrain, you hear that HE the guitarist love the first chord so much ("wow, hear me, guitar God, play a POWER CHORD!", face turns to an orgasmic expression) that the following chords are forgotten and played at a way lower volume...so, the overdrive gets terribly uneven and wimpy...

 

3) play EVERYTHINg with TOO MUCH overdrive

 

4) chord loudness has a negative relation to chord complexity (i.e. the harder the chord is, the lower the volume

 

5) CONSTANTLY turn the volume knobs on the guitar, so when you record DI, like me, half of the recordings distort because they turned the volume way up -after- the recording check. "Because my tone sucked".

 

6) KEEP PLAYING. Forever and ever. Always. When you are pre-mixing some stuff and want to hear what you do...you can't. They just never stop fiddling: after recording they are frustrated about your harmonies (i.e. more complex than a power chord), stand for a while, but then turn up the overdrive and hit the 'delay' effect pedal and start...erm....well it is loud.

 

7) cannot play chords in another way than as described in the CHORDS BOOK. This is why they can't play -11 chords...these are not in the chords book. They cannot twist a chord so that you have (suggestion from the keyboard player) 'an Ab as the top note'.

 

 

But they CAN do a Bb powerchord at the start, have it feedback with the amp. Hair-style.

 

 

Ahwell. This night I am going to cut and paste a wahwah track that IS in time, by hand... :-( And it rains, I got soaking wet while biking and I have a slight yearning headache.

 

Life is good

 

Sometimes

[blue4rc]

Roald, like the track.

 

Believe it or not, not all guitar players suck or have bad taste. Sounds like you just need to find better players.

 

Recording guitar DI, IMO is pretty much going to suck unless you're looking for that heavy, distorted "POD" sound. But i'm more into a cranked tube amp sound.

 

But I can hear what you're saying on the track. Guitar could of been a bit more interesting.

[Rauzi]

Can he actually read notes?

 

Guitarists who still get a kick out of just playing a powerchord aren't really good guitarists imho. Find a better one?

[Darkstorm]

Keyboards and guitar are diff instruments with diff expressiveness and note group making ease abilities.

 

Its overly common in todays synth player world for keyboardists not to actually play the instruments. Instead they program "music" with mouse clicks then hit the play button. This puts guitarists above good percentage of keyboard players cause they play their instrument note for note instead of via loops, arps, and preprogrammed mouse clicking.

 

Myself plays synth like a guitar or bass player. Via the keyboard itself. I also play guitar & bass. Nothings as absurd to me as a synth player who doesnt play the instrument via keyboard but who then claims they are a keyboardist anyway.

[Roald]

blue4rc: I am not unhappy with the sound I get from some kind of 'POD' style plugin that I have (forgot the name). It's only a demo, and for that it works good enough. I like to record clean because then I can change everything afterwards. Maybe I'll rerecord the stuff with my (Bassman 50 tube) amp and condenser mic, but I doubt it will sound better then because I cannot play it at full volume (4 story Berlin apartment with cardboard walls). I think sound is also way less important than playing.....

 

Rauzi, he can. he can even do 'Autumn leaves' . I think I am pushing my fried into a territory where he isnt the specialist. But it's still frustrating....currently I am wondering if my band bring in stuff into my music, or if they are simply 'in the way'.

[blue4rc]

 

I think sound is also way less important than playing.....

 

 

I would have to disagree. I think they go hand in hand.

[Sleepin' Deeper]

Words that spring to mind are "lazy", "indifferent" and "going nowhere fast"!

 

I don't know if this was meant to be a serious composition.....but it sounds like some sunday afternoon noodling with nothing to say! Sounds to me like none of the players we're into this track, and we're just playing 'cos....'cos they had to??

 

Nice sounds....but that's all!

 

Peace

 

P.S. Guitars are often similar to other cock-extensions such a Porshes or flashy mobile phones....

[eatsdrummachine]

song sounds good.

 

UNSOLICITED NITPICKING: fake record hiss no good. use a real turntable or not at all.

 

OVERGENERALIZED OPINION FOR DRAMATIC FX: guitar players should play synth but not the other way around. (Jonny Greenwood- hello). or maybe all instruments should be played by tasteful non-wankers and we'll just call it good.

 

/johnny

 

LmixR:)

[Roald]

haha, the turntable sound is DEFINITELY real! It's a real LP track, from which i took the drumloop. Just eq-ed it to get rid of some hiss and some crackles.

 

Ah well, we'll see where this goes. I made the track so 'traditional' on purpose, because my band members think my music is 'artistic' and stuff....so I made a real 'classic' song with and intro, verses, refrain, bridge,.... The melody is ready as well, but I need someone (i.e. other bandmember) to make lyrics over them, don't know if that's gonna happen soon, actually.

[grumphh]

If you cannot appreciate the beauty of a powerchord played through a couple of hundred watts of tube gear i am of the firm opinion that all you deserve is to write songs for the eurovision song contest.

 

I like to record clean because then I can change everything afterwards.

Good for you, forget about the individuals expressive capabilities on his/hers chosen instrument.

Better yet, get a midi track - that way you will have full control over every tiny movement

[Roald]

?

 

a FEW hundred watts? i.e. an amp that has MORE THAN 100 WATT TUBE?

 

 

maybe you can start practising the spelling of 'eurovision' already

 

 

that aside

 

1) can't record loud in my house, so plugin will sound better than my own tube amp+condenser.

 

2)My amp is a fender Bassman, that is best for clean sounds anyway, so overdriving it will not be the best thing.

 

3) can try out all effects and settings that I want. Can add (pre- preamp) tremolo afterwards

 

4) we don't need to do everything with headphones, so I can tell the guitarist when he doesnt play what I like to hear

 

I am sorry to have intruded the creative space of a musical genius, with my keyboardish digital mind.

[grumphh]

Originally posted by Roald ? a FEW hundred watts? i.e. an amp that has MORE THAN 100 WATT TUBE? maybe you can start practising the spelling of 'eurovision' already

*LOL* A 100 watt non-master-volume Marshall is rated at clean power - so once you get to the point where it distorts it delivers more than 100 watts. And if you turn it all the way up you get close to a constant emission of power that is upwards of 150 W :D

And yes - that is far too loud for any practical use, agreed - but if that sound doesn't stir anything in you, i feel sorry for you

 

Mind, that IMO a single unamplified spanish guitar can have the same emotional effect - in fact music depends entirely on the musician behind it.

that aside 1) can't record loud in my house, so plugin will sound better than my own tube amp+condenser. 2)My amp is a fender Bassman, that is best for clean sounds anyway, so overdriving it will not be the best thing.

Actually, if you have the right model Bassman (one of the earlier ones), it might well be the perfect amp to overdrive

 

3) can try out all effects and settings that I want. Can add (pre- preamp) tremolo afterwards 4) we don't need to do everything with headphones, so I can tell the guitarist when he doesnt play what I like to hear I am sorry to have intruded the creative space of a musical genius, with my keyboardish digital mind.

And yes, your concerns regarding tone and recording are right, tube amps don't really work for home recording.

 

My main objection to your posting, is that you seem to disregard what actual instruments and their players add to a track - namely life. Your wish to control all the tiny details is very "programmer-like" to me, and does IMO not necessarily contribute to good music making.

And most certainly not at all in something jazzish - which is music where the importance is the musicians interaction with each other and the piece.

 

And of course your slagging guitarists as a whole is quite annoying (to me as a guitarist, who BTW can't play any standards), and in any case a very limiting approach to creative collaboration.

 

Find a guitarplayer that suits your style instead of whining.

 

What i say is: It would be equally ridiculous of me to slag off all keyboard players for their stupid notions of wanting to add weird extended chords to any piece of music they get their hands on. I only slag jazz keyboard players

[Roald]

hahaha, grumph, correct. It's unfair to generalize all guitarists, and to say that they're not good musicians because they don't do D#5#9 chords.

 

It's just my way of letting some steam off, with my band things are getting rather frustrating. I had hoped that, especially the guitarist, would bring in new ideas and new inspiration and life (like in my previous band), but none of this happens really. But I can't really 'replace people', there aren't too many funk guitarists around, over here.

 

 

 

In my experience, people think song writing and recording are easy, think too light about it. They come, and help me out for 'an hour or so', and are generally unhappy afterwards because 'they didn't play like they use to'.....it's like hearing yourself sing (on a recording) for the first time.

 

I don't want to take the 'life' out of the recording, but I really do need precisely played rhytm stuff. Otherwise it gets so messy. I don't think that's too much to ask...

 

I hope the sarcastic undertone (thats why I made the thread title so 'over the top') in the first post was clear. However, the wah/rhythm problem, the overdrive, the playing in between are really my experience.

[oddbods finger]

Actually the guitar seems 'reasonably' restrained.

There's plenty of guitarists who would have relished playing a 3 minute solo over that track...complete with grimacing facial expressions.

Speaking as a 'guitarist turned keyboardist' I've found the necessity to indulge in egotistic guitar playing recedes with age.

Perhaps you could find a more mature player...?

 

Still...nice track...albeit rather crackly

[grumphh]

Originally posted by Roald In my experience, people think song writing and recording are easy, think too light about it. They come, and help me out for 'an hour or so', and are generally unhappy afterwards because 'they didn't play like they use to'.....it's like hearing yourself sing (on a recording) for the first time. I don't want to take the 'life' out of the recording, but I really do need precisely played rhytm stuff. Otherwise it gets so messy. I don't think that's too much to ask...

True, and recording is IMO where you separate the talented (or hard practising) musicians from the wannabees

 

Because live you can always make stuff work (provided that you have a good drummer/rythm section) but when it comes down to the scrutinizing of an actual recording even the tiniest mistakes become obvious - so you really need to get to know people who can actually perform well under this sort of pressure as well.

 

So either you find the extremely talented ones, or you will have to wait a few years before your friends have practised enough to record properly :D

 

In the meanwhile, have fun with your music and the recordings

[coyote-1]

You know, putting my Hammond thru my 200w Marshall Major will almost give me the same feeling as when I plug in the Strat.

 

I can read music. AND I still get that 'feeling' every time I blast a power chord, or let a nice midrange lead note start feeding back thru the stack. If you can't dig that, you're too old to rock & roll.