OT-Pol - Bitch here: The KSS Arena

Since I can't lock threads I'll ask Scott to lock this list; if you still need any arguments, POST THEM HERE. Any other topic, labeled or not - tough luck. Post it here and remember, you might have to spend some more time here on the forum with the folks you're debating so keep it civil.

Anyone complaining about censorship; you had the chance to suggest better options, plus the locked threads won't suddenly disappear. So, your opinion will not be muted, and you'll still have more than enough opportunity to voice it.

Now, have fun

The Audacity Works · November 5, 2004

In regards to Nectarios' (admittedly humorous... ahem, I mean humourous) thread demanding the Revocation of Independence from the UK:

Do we have to stop brushing our teeth, getting any sun whatsoever, watching good movies, eating edible food, and dating attractive women, too?

I kid, I kid...

Bob Nova · November 5, 2004

Originally posted by audacity works

In regards to Nectarios' (admittedly humorous... ahem, I mean humo
u
rous) thread demanding the Revocation of Independence from the UK:

Do we have to stop brushing our teeth, getting any sun whatsoever, watching good movies, eating edible food, and dating attractive women, too?

I kid, I kid...

This guy isnt kidding....another love letter from over 'ome

http://www.mirror.co.uk/columnists/brianreade

GOD HELP AMERICA

Nov 5 2004

THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN..

THEY say that in life you get what you deserve. Well, today America has deservedly got a lawless cowboy to lead them further into carnage and isolation and the unreserved contempt of most of the rest of the world.

This once-great country has pulled up its drawbridge for another four years and stuck a finger up to the billions of us forced to share the same air. And in doing so, it has shown itself to be a fearful, backward-looking and very small nation.

This should have been the day when Americans finally answered their critics by raising their eyes from their own sidewalks and looking outward towards the rest of humanity.

And for a few hours early yesterday, when the exit polls predicted a John Kerry victory, it seemed they had.

But then the horrible, inevitable truth hit home. They had somehow managed to re-elect the most devious, blinkered and reckless leader ever put before them. The Yellow Rogue of Texas.

A self-serving, dim-witted, draft-dodging, gung-ho little rich boy, whose idea of courage is to yell: "I feel good," as he unleashes an awesome fury which slaughters 100,000 innocents for no other reason than greed and vanity.

A dangerous chameleon, his charming exterior provides cover for a power-crazed clique of Doctor Strangeloves whose goal is to increase America's grip on the world's economies and natural resources.

And in foolishly backing him, Americans have given the go-ahead for more unilateral pre-emptive strikes, more world instability and most probably another 9/11.

Why else do you think bin Laden was so happy to scare them to the polls, then made no attempt to scupper the outcome?

There's only one headline in town today, folks: "It Was Osama Wot Won It."

And soon he'll expect pay-back. Well, he can't allow Bush to have his folks whoopin' and a-hollerin' without his own getting a share of the fun, can he?

Heck, guys, I hope you're feeling proud today.

To the tens of millions who voted for John Kerry, my commiserations.

To the overwhelming majority of you who didn't, I simply ask: Have you learnt nothing? Do you despise your own image that much?

Do you care so little about the world beyond your shores? How could you do this to yourselves?

How appalling must one man's record at home and abroad be for you to reject him?

Kerry wasn't the best presidential candidate the Democrats have ever fielded (and he did deserve a kicking for that "reporting for doo-dee" moment), but at least he understood the complexity of the world outside America, and domestic disgraces like the 45 million of his fellow citizens without health cover.

He would have done something to make that country fairer and re-connected it with the wider world.

Instead America chose a man without morals or vision. An economic incompetent who inherited a $2billion surplus from Clinton, gave it in tax cuts to the rich and turned the US into the world's largest debtor nation.

A man who sneers at the rights of other nations. Who has withdrawn from international treaties on the environment and chemical weapons.

A man who flattens sovereign states then hands the rebuilding contracts to his own billionaire party backers.

A man who promotes trade protectionism and backs an Israeli government which continually flouts UN resolutions.

America has chosen a menacingly immature buffoon who likened the pursuit of the 9/11 terrorists to a Wild West, Wanted Dead or Alive man-hunt and, during the Afghanistan war, kept a baseball scorecard in his drawer, notching up hits when news came through of enemy deaths.

A RADICAL Christian fanatic who decided the world was made up of the forces of good and evil, who invented a war on terror, and thus as author of it, believed he had the right to set the rules of engagement.

Which translates to telling his troops to do what the hell they want to the bad guys. As he has at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and countless towns across Iraq.

You have to feel sorry for the millions of Yanks in the big cities like New York, Washington, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles and San Francisco who voted to kick him out.

These are the sophisticated side of the electorate who recognise a gibbon when they see one.

As for the ones who put him in, across the Bible Belt and the South, us outsiders can only feel pity.

Were I a Kerry voter, though, I'd feel deep anger, not only at them returning Bush to power, but for allowing the outside world to lump us all into the same category of moronic muppets.

The self-righteous, gun-totin', military lovin', sister marryin', abortion-hatin', gay-loathin', foreigner-despisin', non-passport ownin' red-necks, who believe God gave America the biggest dick in the world so it could urinate on the rest of us and make their land "free and strong".

You probably won't be surprised to learn of would-be Oklahoma Republican Senator Tom Coburn who, on Tuesday, promised to ban abortion and execute any doctors who carried them out.

He also told voters that lesbianism is so rampant in the state's schools that girls were being sent to toilets on their own. Not that any principal could be found to back him up.

These are the people who hijack the word patriot and liken compassion to child-molesting. And they are unknowingly bin Laden's chief recruiting officers.

Al-Qaeda's existence is fuelled by the outpourings of America's Christian right. Bush is its commander-in-chief. And he and bin Laden need each other to survive.

Both need to play Lex Luther to each others' Superman with their own fanatical people. Maybe that's why the mightiest military machine ever assembled has failed to catch the world's most wanted man.

Or is the reason simply that America is incompetent? That behind the bluff they are frightened and clueless, which is why they've stayed with the devil they know.

VISITORS from another planet watching this election would surely not credit the amateurism.

The queues for hours to register a tick; the 17,000 lawyers needed to ensure there was no cheating; the $1.2bn wasted by parties trying to discredit the enemy; the allegations of fraud, intimidation and dirty tricks; the exit polls which were so wildly inaccurate; an Electoral College voting system that makes the Eurovision Song Contest look like a beacon of democracy and efficiency; and the delays and the legal wrangles in announcing the victor.

Yet America would have us believe theirs is the finest democracy in the world. Well, that fine democracy has got the man it deserved. George W Bush.

But is America safer today without Kerry in charge? A man who overnight would have given back to the UN some credibility and authority. Who would have worked out the best way to undo the Iraq mess without fear of losing face.

Instead, the questions facing America today are - how many more thousands of their sons will die as Iraq descends into a new Vietnam? And how many more Vietnams are on the horizon now they have given Bush the mandate to go after Iran, Syria, North Korea or Cuba...?

Today is a sad day for the world, but it's even sadder for the millions of intelligent Americans embarrassed by a gung-ho leader and backed by a banal electorate, half of whom still believe Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

Yanks had the chance to show the world a better way this week, instead they made a thuggish cowboy ride off into the sunset bathed in glory.

And in doing so it brought Armageddon that little bit closer and re-christened their beloved nation The Home Of The Knave and the Land Of The Freak.

God Help America.

cybermooks · November 5, 2004

So the British left hates American and can only see things through a warped, socialist prism. What else is new/

Birdienumnum · November 5, 2004

I feel that warm, gushing heartland Americana country faith flowing all over me already.

*********

latimes.com

Now That He's Free, No Need for Reality

Steve Lopez

November 5, 2004

I wouldn't call it a bolt of lightning, exactly, or even a revelation. My moment of enlightenment was more subtle than that.

I was driving the Nissan Sentra along Auto Row in Glendale when I saw a Ford Excursion with two U.S. flags flying from the windows. A warm feeling came over me, and when I looked at myself in the rearview mirror, I saw the glow of my rebirth.

Four more years, I said to myself. President George W. Bush had won reelection, and I was smiling as if I had been set free.

Was that really me in the mirror?

Cynic, contrarian, naysayer. That's the rotten-souled man I had been. Moments earlier, I had scoffed at radio reports suggesting that Bush scored big points for his solid Christian morality.

What morality? I had wondered. The trumped-up justification for a war that has killed tens of thousands, the environmental atrocity he called the Clear Skies Initiative or the thinly veiled gay-bashing that sent true believers flocking to the polls?

But then it hit me.

Sure, John Kerry ran a disastrous campaign. But if Bush could screw things up as badly as he did the last four years and still win a second term, he truly must have God on his side.

I, on the other hand, had been a man adrift until I suddenly realized that Glendale's Brand Boulevard was my road to Damascus.

A far greater percentage of Americans believe in creationism than in evolution, and I had to stop thinking of them as rubes. A July poll revealed that more than half of America still believed Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and I had to stop thinking of them as blockheads.

Faith. That's what drives this country, and that's exactly what was missing in my life. I jerked the Sentra to the curb, took a deep breath and repudiated all the lies I've been telling myself.

For starters, I never liked the Sentra. I hate it, even if it does get great mileage, and I feel like a big wuss for driving a Japanese car the size of a walnut. What I need

GlassPrisoner · November 5, 2004

I feel that warm, gushing heartland Americana country faith flowing all over me already

Ummm....that's not faith.....

cybermooks · November 5, 2004

It is always interesting to read what the other side thinks, notwithstanding a lot of stereotyping and oversimplification. There all kinds of people in different places and this absolutism about red and blue really doesn't reflect reality.

The faith thing is really getting overplayed now, because it stands out easily in terms of what happened. But if that accounts for 20-30% at most of Bush's vote where did the rest come from?

Further even among those believers it is a bit simplistic to think they are all fundamentalist yahoos.

This is no more true than all Kerry voters are Volvo driving ex hippies or whatever; things aren't that simple.

There are a lot of us who vote that way in spite of that group, not because of them.

mildbill · November 5, 2004

yoozer, i deleted a political thread i started, (i felt there were too many already), but i believe it was you who posted a link.

thanks, i've got it bookmarked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_government

isosceles · November 5, 2004

*****DICK MORRIS *******

http://www.thehill.com/morris/110404.aspx

**NOTE YES THE EXIT POLLS WERE WRONG BECAUSE OF EVOTER FRAUD U JACKASS, NOT LIBERAL BIAS MEDIA**********

Those faulty exit polls were sabotage

By now it is well-known and a part of the 2004 election lore how the exit polls by the major television networks were wrong.

Likely this faux pas will assume its place among wartime stories alongside the mistaken calls on Florida

Puta · November 5, 2004

posted by Cybermooks

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. {censored} Puta

Oh good luck with in your oh so tolerant land of tulips. They came from Turkey anyway so its time you saw the handwriting on the wall. You must tolerate everyone but Christians.

Meanwhile, criticize us, hate us but the only place I see political violence and assassination is over there dude, i.e. Van Gogh.

Unless the right comes to power in Europe you are doomed.

Viva Berlusconi!!

i just had to react to this post by cybermooks in the "moderators" thread...

LOL

it's pretty funny, but also pathetic, that you seem to have to react to every post on the forum in which Bush is criticized...

that, plus the fact that your profile says "former CEO" leads me to an intruiging question: Dick, is that you?

btw we already have a rightwing government at the moment, doesn't seem to help much. all they are doing now is feeding the terrorism hysteria: one guy gets shot and suddenly we are all in danger. the chance of being hit by a car or getting struck by lightening, is many times bigger than the chance of becoming a victim of an act of terror.

ofcourse i don't have to tell you about the benefits of keeping the public afraid... after all, that's what kept you and ol' George in power!

mildbill · November 5, 2004

america died hundreds of years ago, when the invasion started.

Birdienumnum · November 5, 2004

Originally posted by Puta

i just had to react to this post by cybermooks in the "moderators" thread...

LOL

it's pretty funny, but also pathetic, that you seem to have to react to every post on the forum in which Bush is criticized...

warped · November 5, 2004

Originally posted by cybermooks

So the British left hates American and can only see things through a
warped
, socialist prism. What else is new/

Warped?

I didn't do nuthin !

*kicks ground*

cybermooks · November 5, 2004

Puta your social cohesion is in danger. You are developing more militant Islam homegrown and they won't assimilate.

We don't have that problem here; it is Europe's, which is actually a good argument for not getting involved or going to war in the middle east any more.

http://www.zachtei.nl/

Birdienumnum · November 6, 2004

Originally posted by cybermooks

You are developing more militant Islam homegrown and they won't assimilate.

Gosh, I wonder why there are more militant Muslims nowadays? Hmmm....

[scratch head] Can't figure it out....

Why can't those pesky Palestinian and Iraqi kids just shut up and take their medicine?

PS Gosh, I wonder why Iran became so militant? It couldn't have been the United States-backed Shah and his secret police? Nah...can't figure it out...

cybermooks · November 6, 2004

Bird you don't really understand the situation on the ground in Europe. It has NOTHING to do with Palestinians, Iraq, or any of that. It is about a wholesale rejection of western life and a thorough inability and unwillingness to assimilate. They are not poor and oppressed, but like most radicals from prosperous backgrounds. It is no accident that so many of the 9/11 hijackers came from there. They first encountered, and became alienated from western culture in Europe.

The man in Netherlands was murdered for making a film about the Muslim oppression of women. A Dutch (originally Somali) woman on the city council is being threatened with death for renoucing Islam and criticizing the treatment of women. This in a western country.

Birdienumnum · November 6, 2004

Cybermooks I am perfectly aware of the dangers of religious fanaticism whether by extreme Muslims in Europe or extreme Christians in the United States, but the Bush administration's heavy-handed and unquestioning support for the brutal Sharon in Israel and Bush's absolutely insane invasion of Iraq definitely are powerful recruitment tools for terrorists, as is our coddling of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan (as we supported the Shah in Iran). I assure you that Iraqi child in that picture is going to grow up to hate the United States, as are children in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan (it's still ok for a warlord to rape any woman he wants to, with our blessing) and of course the Palestinian children. Supporting brutul regimes and brutal actions around the world (and causing them ourselves in Iraq) with that old "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" philosophy is why we are more hated every day. Bush is fighting fire with fire and reducing ourselves to the level of the terrorists with each innocent victim he creates. He is an ignorant fool who knows nothing about true Christianity or Islam either.

Birdienumnum · November 6, 2004

Originally posted by cybermooks

They are not poor and oppressed, but like most radicals from prosperous backgrounds.

That is so inaccurate. Poverty and ignorance breeds religious fanaticism whether here in the red states or on the Arab street. More Americans believe in Creationism than in Darwinism. Karl Rove sure knew what he was doing with anti-gay amendments in 11 states, exploiting the fear and ignorance of people. Yep, the next four years are hellbound.

cybermooks · November 6, 2004

Not really. To equate American Christians with Muslim terrorists is really sick.

In any event I was specifically addressing the situation in Europe which has little to do with any of this.

Birdienumnum · November 6, 2004

Originally posted by cybermooks

Not really. To equate American Christians with Muslim terrorists is really sick.

You don't read very carefully. I was comparing Christian fanatics with Muslim fanatics. Expect a lot more of both in the next four years as they feed off each other.

scubyfan · November 6, 2004

Originally posted by Birdienumnum

You don't read very carefully. I was comparing Christian fanatics with Muslim fanatics. Expect a lot more of both in the next four years as they feed off each other.

If we're lucky, they'll finish each-other off and the world will remain to us normal people.

Gleotch! · November 6, 2004

He said extreme Christians. The KKK are extreme Christians. Terrorists are extreme Muslims. Niether group represents thier respective religions very well.

And so if that kid is just gonna grow up and hate us, I say we kill him now while we have the chance.

See, I can be fair and balanced!

Puta · November 6, 2004

Originally posted by cybermooks

Bird you don't really understand the situation on the ground in Europe. It has NOTHING to do with Palestinians, Iraq, or any of that. It is about a wholesale rejection of western life and a thorough inability and unwillingness to assimilate. They are not poor and oppressed, but like most radicals from prosperous backgrounds. It is no accident that so many of the 9/11 hijackers came from there. They first encountered, and became alienated from western culture in Europe.

you are partly right.

most of these new radicals used to be pretty assimilated. then they started to develop a bigger interest in islam. this could be for all kind of reasons: soulsearching, help with problems, consolation for a loss etc. they got in contact with radical imams, usually straight from arabic countries, and they started to change. they started to live to the letter of the Koran and renounced western lifestyle. enraged by what is happening to their muslimbrothers all over the world, some of them now resort to violence.

so what's happening in palestina and iraq is playing a big role. without that, most of these people would be the muslim equivalent of the Amish.

The man in Netherlands was murdered for making a film about the Muslim oppression of women. A Dutch (originally Somali) woman on the city council is being threatened with death for renoucing Islam and criticizing the treatment of women. This in a western country.

the film was made by van Gogh and Hirshi Ali (the somali woman). among other things, it showed Koran lyrics written on naked women. as a former muslim, Hirshi Ali knew she was taking a big risk by messing with the holy scripture (she's said so). if you want to enrage fanatic muslims, that's the way to do it. Van Gogh has also been writing negative and offending stuff about the islam for years.

ofcourse it's ridiculous and outrageous that he got murdered, but if someone was going to get murdered, it was going to be him.

scubyfan · November 6, 2004

There were even death threats on that van Gogh guy (who is actually related somehow to the famous artist, and I'm not making that up because of his last name, as it's true.) I'm sure the residents of the bible belt wouldn't like it if I carved the constitution on the back of a black woman and publicized the movie as an anti-redneck flick.

Puta · November 6, 2004

Originally posted by scubyfan

There were even death threats on that van Gogh guy (who is actually related somehow to the famous artist, and I'm not making that up because of his last name, as it's true.) I'm sure the residents of the bible belt wouldn't like it if I carved the constitution on the back of a black woman and publicized the movie as an anti-redneck flick.

i recall some abortion doctors getting shot...

OT-Pol - Bitch here: The KSS Arena

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