Best piano patch?

[GigMan]

Originally posted by Kirumamoru Mmm-hmm... and where I come from, we'd tell you to go f--k yourself, and then probably kick your @$$ for good measure. If you wanna think I'm sucking up for some non-existent job at Yamaha, go right ahead. Kiru

 

Hey, whoah, easy there - big fella...

 

Kiru must be strung out, feeling the pressures of the "Oh my god, I'm graduationg college + have no freakin' idea of what I'm going to do w/my life" blues these days...

 

K - when do you graduate?

[Kirumamoru]

Originally posted by GigMan Hey, whoah, easy there - big fella... Kiru must be strung out, feeling the pressures of the "Oh my god, I'm graduationg college + have no freakin' idea of what I'm going to do w/my life" blues these days... K- when do you graduate?

Actually, I am pretty strung out. I'm graduating a week from tomorrow (16 Dec), one day after my 23 birthday, and I really don't know what I'm going to do with my life. I have an application in to go teach English in Japan, and if that falls through, my sister and I and a few friends are bandying around the idea of moving to Canada. There's a certain benefit to being young and not really having all that much to lose... well, except I need to lose 50 lbs and $11K in college loans. I have even been in touch with Mike M. about working in the musical instrument industry, but it's not like Yamaha is going to hire me right off, or anything. If I were to end up working there, the P-120 would be ancient history by then.

 

And if someone is going to accuse me of @$$-kissing, they can still go f--k themselves.

 

Kiru

[eric]

No offense to either of them, but I still speculate that rintincop/Jazz+/petros/etc. and p120dUdE/JazzP120/etc. are the same person creating multiple divergent internet personas. The writing style, editing style and other indicators are so strikingly similar. Jazz+ publicly acknowledged that he has more monikers than he has fingers...the back and forth between the two of them is rather entertaining, in any event.

 

Regards,

Eric

[Miket156]

Eric:

 

I think they're two different people. Jazz+ hates the P120 and P120dude says (and said 10,000 times) its awesome. At least P120dude isn't getting into pointless, unending arguments about it anymore. Anyway Jazz+ is a bit older than P120dude. Different people.

 

I wish we can disagree in a friendy way, or agree to disagree when need be. No sense is threatening each other. Lighten up guys.

 

 

Mike T.

 

PS Did you get the replacement knob for your Micron yet?

[eric]

 

Originally posted by MikeT156 Eric: I think they're two different people. Jazz+ hates the P120 and P120dude says (and said 10,000 times) its awesome. At least P120dude isn't getting into pointess, unending arguments about it anymore. Anyway Jazz+ is a bit older than P120dude. Different people. I wish we can disagree in a friendy way, or agree to disagree when need be. No sense is threatening each other. Lighten up guys. Mike T.

 

 

Mike T - Good point about the differences in opinion on Yamaha products. Pure speculation on my part that they are alter egos of one another. It is rather peculiar that they are almost exact opposites, but otherwise have strikingly similar posting strategies. Like one leaves a little trail of breadcrumbs for the other to find and then post an opposing comment...who knows.

 

 

PS Did you get the replacement knob for your Micron yet?

 

 

Nope, the Micron knob did not arrive yet, but hope to get it before the weekend! Thanks for asking.

 

Regards,

Eric

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by Kirumamoru Mmm-hmm... and where I come from, we'd tell you to go f--k yourself, and then probably kick your @$$ for good measure. If you wanna think I'm sucking up for some non-existent job at Yamaha, go right ahead. Kiru

 

Kiru, you just lost a lot of respect from me there.

 

Must be the soda diet I guess..

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by JazzP120 orangefunk, Do you prefer the P80? Chris

 

Yes I do to an extent, the P80 has a more classical tone and doesn't have a pronounced attack, some people say its too distant, and I agree but I like that tone. But then on the other hand the P120 is more dynamic and has a better selection of other sounds so its all a toss up really.. don't get me wrong the P120 is a good piano and I quite like it... but its not the be all and end all... but then again what is... oh I know a Steinway!!

 

Fwiw I read that the Promega pianos actually have their attack portions removed and then added artificially via their DSP... seems to sound pretty convincing... I might go over to that after Xmas...

 

I'm slowly getting ready for the next "band" phase (piano/drums/bass/sax/tabla) in my life, as I haven't played live in a band since 2000/01 , and I think an expressive piano is a real mut.. perhaps the rhodes might have to start to come out with me again

[Kirumamoru]

Originally posted by orangefunk Kiru, you just lost a lot of respect from me there. Must be the soda diet I guess..

Right; how much respect did you have for me in the first place if you think I'm sitting here sucking up to Yamaha?

 

Maybe you were trying to be funny? You failed miserably. But hey, if you can't figure out why you pissed me off, then what makes you think I'll care whether you have "respect" for me or not. It's not like you're giving me the impression that you're any kind of a good judge of character.

 

At any rate, I'd rather you think I was an asshole, rather than a kissass, because at least then you'd be right.

 

Kiru

[spinman]

The casio sk-1 has by far a superior piano tone. it's not so good solo'd, but it fits into a mix like you wouldn't believe.

 

I do recommend mic'ing the speaker, though, the line out is balls.

[orangefunk]

Kiru,

 

I could reply in a similar fashion but I don't want to propogate the situation.

 

Peace

Orangefunk

[Miket156]

Orangefunk:

 

I don't know if you read the blurb I posted here on a different thread about the Promega, I cut and pasted it from the Musicplayer.com KB forum. It was written by a former MI manf. rep that knows the facts about how the Promega works. His handle is Capnzoot Here's a portion of that post:

_________________________________________________

The actual pianos are sampled. The hammer strike is removed. The harmonic content is set as a "reference". You strike a key and several things happen:

 

The keybed is scanned for the note you played and its velocity, as well as any other keys down. The OS uses the content information for the note and 1) adds the hammer, 2) starts hauling ass to generate the math for the real-time playback of the pure audio physics of the entire note 3) generates the overtone series of sympathetic harmonics (based on other undamped strings when it scanned the keybed) via pure audio physics math and adds that in.

 

This is why even the best sample pianos are somewhat lacking, or feel like typewriters. Sample a note. Regardless of velocity layers, it is always that note, captured in time, relative to itself with whatever sonic artifacts it produced, by itself. The ProMega3 has the mathematical capability to know what note is down and what the harmonic artifacts are for that note with any given other undamped note(s). Not sterile, not as a paste-in of "prevalent" harmonics.

 

The ProMega3 is the result of well over a decade of research by physicists who set out to discover the auditory physics of a piano "sound". Every note and its content and relative harmonics have been researched at the mathematical level, not at the wavetable lookup level like every "sampled" piano on the market. What this means is that the mathematical equivalent of note x at velocity x is understood as math and a complex filtering algorithm is applied to a content "note" and the computer generates the "envelope" based on time/harmonic content decay for that note, as well as all the other relative harmonic artifacts.

________________________________________________

Orangefunk:

 

With that crash course on how the Promega 3 differs from "Wavetable" lookup sampled pianos, I think we can understand why the Promega 3 soulds more like a Steinway than anything else I've ever heard in a digital piano. I know a few players that tried the Promega 3 and didn't buy it. Not because the piano wasn't the best they ever heard, but because they weren't impressed with the OTHER samples on the piano. We've use to having a digital piano, or a workstation class boad that wears a lot of hats. They thougt it was more of a one trick pony. That's why I bought the Motif ES8.

 

Those of use that want the best digital piano, and don't care for Yamaha or Roland digital pianos, the Promega is the only real alternative. The samples are not as "bright" as the Yamaha samples, which are geared for pop music, so it cuts through. I think the Roland samples sound a little more mellow than the Yamaha, but the Promega stands out for its Steinway sound. If I ever get any more money, I would love to put one in my bedroom just to play piano.

 

If you're a jazz or classical player, the Promega is a logical step, provided you like the action as well as the sound. Its really not cut out for loud rock groups.

 

Mike T.

[orangefunk]

Thanks Mike, I know this is going to sound silly but one of the main things I don't like about the Promega 3 is the look, also the the Promega 2 just looks as bad and not as styled as I'd like it to be.. I know Rick Wakeman and Keith Emerson were responsible for some of the design elements so I guess we should count our lucky stars that the keyboard wasn't in the shape of a dragons head, or had a flamethrower and cape option

 

We will see, at this juncture the 3 is a bit too much money for me to justify, but then if there isn't really anything else that does the job as well then I dunno... I might just have to bite the bullet!

 

For me it would have been better if the Promega had a styling like that of the P120 or even P250... another minus point was the lack of a sequencer... I can't tell you how handy the P120 one is for capturing moments of inspiration

 

Something that I've been contemplating is the old CP70, but I'd soon get bored of the tone I think... and maybe it just doesn't sound as rich as these newer digitals..

 

Peace

O

[colourisred]

To Kiru,

 

no offense, but part of your counter-arguments prove to me, that lack of imagination is

spread out wider than I thougt.

 

 

 

"Switching from piano- to organ- keyboardmode"

----------------------------------------------

 

Excuse me for not describing the whole mechanism. Of course on this movable bar I mentioned

the attachmentpoints of retaining springs are located, so that when hammers are lifted

concurrently all springs get tensed.

And if this is to complicated (requires no single part more), you get a very good compromise

when springs stay fixed and you only can add or remove the hammerweights.

 

This second solution I did for myself on a Roland A-37. I streched the springs and added

simple hammerweightmechanisms beneath the keys. Lifting the weights is performed by a special

selfmade nylontube. With a small air pump - it is integrated - I can "switch" within 5 seconds

piano- to organ- "feeling". Due to DIY "my solution" is not perfekt, but together with my

Fantom-XR (Ultimate Keys Expansion included) i feel really comfortable playing organ and piano

by a single keyboard.

 

Btw: the new piano-waves in Fantom-X are really excellent and the synth-engine allows to create

patches from "dark" to "cutting-through" in a way I've never seen before. And I've "seen" within

15 years nearly all digital instruments where a pianosound "came or comes out".

 

 

 

"P-90 and smallest possible size"

---------------------------------

 

As mentioned, I own a P-90, so I certainly didn't find it bad - mere the opposite, but:

 

- placing the electronics on the side increases breadth with the result that the instrument just

doesn't fit on the backseat of many cars, whereas 2 inches deeper would affect only a very minor

increasement of weight but many advantages.

 

- plugs on the side show me that nobody could imagine that some stages are a "bit" smaller. At latest

when the saxer in front of you breaks the pedaljack with his "backside" during his solo ... o.k.

when lineouts are still in order, you can continue playing without pedal.

 

Nevertheless P-90 is userfriendly instrument. I even could adjust the (for me) much to heavy downweights

to "normal" with an edge cutter. Now the keyboard is no longer "graded" (all keys are equal balanced

and have the weight of highest C or Bes), very comfortable for me.

 

Btw: On Yamaha's website they are proud that their most expensive concert grand is equipped with (guess

what) a balanced action.

 

 

As I said, no offense Kiru.

I appreciate nearly all of your postings I've read

and please excuse my poor English.

 

Bernd

[Miket156]

Orangefunk:

 

I think we've gotten accustomed to a flater looking layout. I don't know that the appearance is a drawback if its easy to work with. The only negative I can see about it is it would be more diffcult to put a KB stand behind it and stack other KB's on top of it.

 

As far as a lack of a sequencer, I think the P120 has a very limited practice sequencer, however, the Promega has none.

 

You mean you wouldn't consider a flamethrower and cape option? At some of the bars I use to play, a flamethrower would have been nice, but a cape..........

 

CP70-Having owned a CP70 and then the B model, I'd say don't waste your time or money, not to mention space and having to carry it around. You need to tune it too. When the Electric Grands came out, they were a God sent. By today's standards, it really isn't up to snuff. The Piano sounds on my Motif ES8 are so much better, you don't have to tune it, and you can transpose with the push of a button.

 

 

 

 

Mike T.

[surgery23]

http://www.generalmusic.us/Professional.htm

 

Looks like the place to buy the Promega..

[lakelanddude]

That GEM promega3 St. Grand sounds really good.

The rest is not that impressive to me. (or just a bad recording?)Good thing is polyphony will never run out during music playing.

Pricy though.

[orangefunk]

The sequencer on the P120 is more useful than u might think.. I frquently play some simple chords into it then develop a melody and record to MD...

 

its certainly a major factor in my purchasing, in contrast to my MOTIF7 sequencer which seems so complicated it gets in the way of the creative process...

 

The P120 gets an 8/10 from me all round, just on the fact that it has a good piano sound, a nice form factor, some cool alternative sounds and an easy to use sequencer all at almost 1/3rd of the prices the ProMega 3 is in the UK...

 

If the PM3 was closer to

[Kirumamoru]

 

Originally posted by orangefunk Kiru, I could reply in a similar fashion but I don't want to propogate the situation.

 

I clicked on this thread with some trepidation, thinking perhaps you might have been hit with a flash of self-realization... or at least that you might have realized that when you groundlessly insult someone, you're liable to piss them off... oh well....

 

Kiru

[Kirumamoru]

Originally posted by colourisred To Kiru, no offense, but part of your counter-arguments prove to me, that lack of imagination is spread out wider than I thougt. "Switching from piano- to organ- keyboardmode" ---------------------------------------------- Excuse me for not describing the whole mechanism. Of course on this movable bar I mentioned the attachmentpoints of retaining springs are located, so that when hammers are lifted concurrently all springs get tensed. And if this is to complicated (requires no single part more), you get a very good compromise when springs stay fixed and you only can add or remove the hammerweights. This second solution I did for myself on a Roland A-37. I streched the springs and added simple hammerweightmechanisms beneath the keys. Lifting the weights is performed by a special selfmade nylontube. With a small air pump - it is integrated - I can "switch" within 5 seconds piano- to organ- "feeling". Due to DIY "my solution" is not perfekt, but together with my Fantom-XR (Ultimate Keys Expansion included) i feel really comfortable playing organ and piano by a single keyboard.

Hey... don't get me wrong... if you can make it so that it feels good and works well, you shouldn't be telling ME about it... you should be patenting it and trying to sell it to the Big Three. Though, I think that there will be some difficulties making the piano action feeling particularly realistic if you're including this sort of option.

Originally posted by colourisred Btw: On Yamaha's website they are proud that their most expensive concert grand is equipped with (guess what) a balanced action.

Yes, I've noticed... the irony does not escape me.

Originally posted by colourisred As I said, no offense Kiru. I appreciate nearly all of your postings I've read and please excuse my poor English.

It's cool, man, I hope I didn't offend you myself. The irritation in my post was really directed at a certain member with unrealistic expectations....

 

Kir

[Miket156]

surgery23:

 

I wouldn't buy a Promega direct from GEM. You end up paying MAP price for it through the manf. web site. They have it for $2999.00 USD! Not a chance. I know one guy that got his for about $2250.00 USD. Even at that, I think its too pricey for "just a piano". I don't care for the other sounds all that much, so that's what you're getting, a no compromise piano, with a 3 pedal board. The Promega 2 is a better value. It has the same amount of Drake processors handling the piano sounds that the Promega 3 does. I checked with DAVE from GEM about that and he confirmed it. The KB is not the same thing though, not sure how the action is on it.

 

Orangefunk:

 

The P120 is a nice portable piano. No question about it, and you really can't beat it for the money. When I tried one out, I liked it a lot. I ended up with the MOTIF ES8 because I wanted something that did a lot more than a stage piano. Then when I compared the cost of the ES8 to the P250, for me the ES8 was better suited. Rumor has it that Yamaha might have an updated P120 or a new model at Winter Namm. I don't know about that. We'll see if the dude passing the rumour is full of {censored} or not. He said he had "inside" information. That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, but not a Starbucks.

 

 

Mike T.

[orangefunk]

 

Originally posted by Kirumamoru I clicked on this thread with some trepidation, thinking perhaps you might have been hit with a flash of self-realization... or at least that you might have realized that when you groundlessly insult someone, you're liable to piss them off... oh well.... Kiru

 

 

it just whines on and on... so full of self importance and arrogance.. give it a rest...

[orangefunk]

Originally posted by Miket156 Orangefunk: The P120 is a nice portable piano. Not question about it, and you really can't beat it for the money. When I tried one out, I liked it a lot. I ended up with the MOTIF ES8 because I wanted something that did a lot more than a stage piano. Then when I compared the cost of the ES8 to the P250, for me the ES8 was better suited. Rumor has it that Yamaha might have an updated P120 or a new model at Winter Namm. I don't know about that. We'll see if the dude passing the rumour is full of {censored} or not. He said he had "inside" information. That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, but not a Starbucks. Mike T.

 

I think it would be cool to just hear something new from Yamaha, I just fear a rehash of an existing product. Can't blame Yamaha for that, its economics.... thats why the P120 is

[JazzP120]

 

No offense to either of them, but I still speculate that rintincop/Jazz+/petros/etc. and p120dUdE/JazzP120/etc. are the same person creating multiple divergent internet personas.

 

 

No, I am not Jazz+/Rintincop. In fact, it is clear that I am nothing like him. Think about it. He basically hates every stage Piano, while I like a lot of them. He blaims Yamaha for weird and phasey sound for no reason, while I don't.

 

From a glance, I may sound like him, but if you read into the details, you will see that I am clearly not him.

 

Chris

[eric]

 

Originally posted by JazzP120 No, I am not Jazz+/Rintincop. In fact, it is clear that I am nothing like him. Think about it. He basically hates every stage Piano, while I like a lot of them. He blaims Yamaha for weird and phasey sound for no reason, while I don't. From a glance, I may sound like him, but if you read into the details, you will see that I am clearly not him. Chris

 

 

That's cool. Still seems like you guys know an awful lot about each other. Hope you are enjoying the new gear! How does the PC88 compare to the P120? Will you be selling the P120 now?

 

Regards,

Eric

[JazzP120]

 

Hope you are enjoying the new gear! How does the PC88 compare to the P120? Will you be selling the P120 now?

 

 

Thanks! The PC88 has excellent Acoustic and Electric Pianos, great strings and pads, and a great feeling action.

 

How does it compare to my P120? Well, the P120's Acoustic and Electric Pianos are superior to the PC88's, but the PC88 has very nice Acoustic and Electric Pianos.

 

No, I am not selling my P120. I am selling my CS1x.

 

Chris