Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 So my cover band decides to add a few more songs to the ever expanding funk/dance medley we play (so far it's 15 minutes long and covers eight songs). I'm up for anything. So they pick an Earth Wind & Fire tune... (cake all I have to play are some horn stabs) and 'December 1963' from Frankie Valli. I remember hearing the song when I was a kid, and I remember the melody, but for me learning by ear was a challenge. Tried as I might I could not identify the chords or progressions after listening to the tune nearly 50 times. I was getting frustrated. So I searched the internet high and low for info on the chords, the key... even digital sheet music to purchase. I found nothing, nada. Mr. Valli must be pretty strict with his publishing rights. After three nights of attempts all I had was the left hand bass line and I was getting desperate. So I downloaded a midi backing track for karaokee, imported the file into SONAR and pulled up Piano Roll for my screen view, and when through the painful task of maping my fingers to the keys triggered by the midi data. I would have used staff view and read the notation but all the midi data was scripted in bass clef, and I feel much more comfortable reading treble clef. I think I need some lessons, ugh! I have to say, that once I learned the first progression everything else was cake. Anyone know an easier method? I feel like I did everything ass backward (not to mention the time it took to set all this up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tdempsey Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 for effort! Seriously, wheresgrant you made the quintessential, utmost effort to learn the songs for the band's sake. it's almost never easy or convenient. keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Hey man, I know exactly what you're sayin'. As many times as I had to learn songs by ear(I don't read very well), I found the best way(for me, at least) to learn tunes by ear is to listen to every instrument and the melodies that each are playing. For any fast chord changes(this is the way I had to learn Genesis' "Dance On A Volcano and UK's "Presto Vivace"(I'm still learning that tune)), I would record a song from a CD into Cakewalk as a .wav file and lower the tempo so that I can hear every note. Tuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Wow, that's pretty cool that you took such effort to learn the song. I usually learn everything by ear and if I'm having a lot of trouble, I go digging for a chart or sheet music. Usually I collaborate with the band's guitar player and we just compare notes (pun intended) via email or at rehearsal. One issue is that the guitar guy does not really know how to name the chords he is playing, so it becomes this exercise of "ok, what notes are in the chord?" Regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 that's a great way to learn a tune. though, my favourite program for that used to be Power Tracks Pro on the PC because it had a piano keyboard at the top which showed what was being played in that particular track. nowadays i would recommend using a Native Instruments plugin which has the keyboard view, so you can see what keys are doing what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Windreaper Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 I would have used staff view and read the notation but all the midi data was scripted in bass clef, and I feel much more comfortable reading treble clef. I think I need some lessons, ugh! Why not just transpose the entire piece up one octave? Otoh, I've learned some pieces using the staff view and I actually take it as a good opportunity to learn reading bass clef. Two birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wes-ninja250 Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 I forget the name of it at the moment, but one of the shareware music notation editors (Noteworth Composer??) will allow you to import a midi track, split it onto different staves by instrument, kill the tracks you don't want (e.g. ch10/gm) and create a "fake book" view (e.g. melody + chords), individual parts (e.g. bass), transpose parts (so you can print trumpet parts), etc, etc. The software I'm describing is a pretty good piece of kit, but I can't for the life of me remember if it's called Noteworthy Composer or not. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by suitandtieguy nowadays i would recommend using a Native Instruments plugin which has the keyboard view, so you can see what keys are doing what. You know... I intended to use the Kontakt player that comes with Garritan Personal Orchestra and I couldn't tell when the black keys were being depressed. Ain't that a bitch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GlassPrisoner Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Learn to read Bass Cleff. I use the exact same process for learning new songs. That and playing the CD while playing along. Also, once I learn my part, I'll mute the piano tack and play along with the Kareoke 'Band'. Most of your programs (CuBase, Sonar, Ect) default to Bass Cleff when the notes fall below middle C. As a last resort, copy the notes in "piano roll" view up an octave, them view the Musical Notation/Score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Take it from me... this is a very cumbersome way to learn a piece. I wish I had enough background and patience reading notation. It would have saved me a lot of time and frustration. The truth is I've been learning to play by ear since I was 3 yrs old (I could play Beautiful Dreamer on my parents organ). In high school I played trumpet... and whe I gravitated toward guitar I read tab and just listened for notes. Never had piano lessons, but I dated a girl in college who taught me the in's and outs of some technique. I'll never be a soloist , or a breakout player in a band situation which is fine, because in any I am always content in my role to add color and dynamics to the music. Still it would be nice to relearn the wriiten theory I ignored years ago, in favor of playing by ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Ikon Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 I just search for the song's midi and open it in Sibelius. If the line is in bass clef you can easily copy/paste it in treble clef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by GlassPrisoner As a last resort, copy the notes in "piano roll" view up an octave, them view the Musical Notation/Score. OK, Now I feel a little dumb. That approach never occured to me. But it works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LANSTARR Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 wheresgrant, what part of new york donde eres? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 19, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by LANSTARR wheresgrant, what part of new york donde eres? Well... Upstate to you.... NYC to everyone west of Syracuse. I live in the MidHudson Valley... Dutchess county near Newburgh. An hour north of Manhattan on the Hudson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tucktronix Posted January 19, 2005 Members Share Posted January 19, 2005 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 Well... Upstate to you.... NYC to everyone west of Syracuse. I live in the MidHudson Valley... Dutchess county near Newburgh. An hour north of Manhattan on the Hudson. Awwww... Grant lives downstate and he knows it!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by tucktronix Awwww... Grant lives downstate and he knows it!! :D Upstate, downstate, in the city - who cares? All you New York cats know that Jersey is really where it's at, right? Hey Grant - I learned that tune (Oh What a Night) with own 2 ears - the hard way, baby!! ha ha Though I must confess: at a recent gig, the singer wanted to take it down from key of C to key of B. I think the original might actually be in C#? Anyway - luckily my Kurz. MicroPiano transposes easily so I played the piano parts in C and it came out in B. However I do the synth lead on my Triton Le and I haven't taken the time to figure out how many friggin' menu buttons I have to press to get that mother to transpose - so I played the solo on the Triton Le in B with my right hand while comping the chords on piano with my left, on my Ensoniq KS32/midi'ed up to the Kurzweil MicroPiano. Man, that was a mindf*ck...!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wes-ninja250 Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 GigMan -- in C on one hand, and B on the other? Jesus Christ, you must have a flexible mind! There are MIDI patch bays out there that can transpose; maybe you should look into one. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by wes-ninja250 GigMan -- in C on one hand, and B on the other? Jesus Christ, you must have a flexible mind! There are MIDI patch bays out there that can transpose; maybe you should look into one. Wes Nah - I just need to learn where the freakin' transpose function is on all my keyboards... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 You know... I intended to use the Kontakt player that comes with Garritan Personal Orchestra and I couldn't tell when the black keys were being depressed. Ain't that a bitch! wel hey man, just buy Power Tracks Pro then ... if you have a Windows machine. the piano keys at the top are lit with red when notes hit ... no 3D bull{censored} to distract you from what they're there for. it's at http://pgmusic.com/ . i think power tracks pro is like 40 bucks or something. i feel VERY strongly that any gigging cover band type musician or pure songwriter should own Band in a Box and a Sound Canvas, if they own a windows machine they should own pretty much all the programs PG sells. PG gets a bad rap for being "cheesy" or something, but man i gotta say those programs are great learning tools and you can do some serious sequencing with Power Tracks. the background on those two programs is pretty cool, too. as of 4 years ago they were still coded by the original dude who wrote them (2 different guys) and their business expansion has always been a read grassroots thing of word-of-mouth and simple black and white mailings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pagan Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 I will second the PowerTracks, I have ver 9 and it rocks! It does show In chords window all the chords and pianoroll is for help. It is currently my favorite MIDI-sequencer. Also very useful for audio recording. I like the reverb, flanger and echo/delay FX it has. I use mixer and other FX on the other audiosequencer for mastering. It costs $50 without MultiTracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 pagan, suitandtieguy - Being a heavily-gigging live musician I definitely take note of what you're saying Re: PowerTracks Pro + I think I'll invest in it. 'Til now I've only used an older copy of SONAR and that was on an older Win98 PC (never got real far with it and just don't have the time to devote to learning yet another complex program - the whole wife/kids/. I currently have a WinXP box - 1.5ghz, 512mb RAM, 2 hard drives (one for the OS, one for data) - which I built myself in Dec. 2001. I just wiped the whole thing clean and did a fresh install of Windows XP Pro (I have piles of the XP Pro discs at work) + the machine runs great! It is actually getting a little long in the tooth by today's specs (speeds approaching the 4ghz mark nowadays) but it'll have to do for now. I'm sure it would do fine for these programs, right (BIAB + PowerTracks Pro)?? Anyway - I think the fact that BandInABox and/or PowerTracks will allow you to decipher chords from a MIDI file makes such software worth the price for that feature alone. Question is, should I get the MultiTracks + all the add'tl styles and stuff or should I just start with the basic program itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members suitandtieguy Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by GigMan Anyway - I think the fact that BandInABox and/or PowerTracks will allow you to decipher chords from a MIDI file makes such software worth the price for that feature alone. Question is, should I get the MultiTracks + all the add'tl styles and stuff or should I just start with the basic program itself? well, i don't know about deciphering chords, but Power Tracks Pro is the best MIDI sequencer you can buy without having to own a macintosh (of course, then Numerology kicks everyone's ass.) the piano keyboard under the transport is what i would get it for if i were you. i guess it can figure the chords out, which sounds great to me. Band-In-A-Box is something to get if someone gives you a lead sheet to learn a tune and you need a way to listen to it, mute parts, etc. if you write songs BIAB is indespensible. btw, the best way i've found to learn a song by ear is to bring it into Digital Performer and make a tempo map for it, then learn it part by part and bar by bar by ear, sequencing as you go along. the tempo map is easy for Pet Shop Boys tunes, but when i learned the Booker T & the MGs song "Hip Hug Her" i spent about 4 hours mapping the tempo in the conductor track. but, spending that much time with the piece immersed me in it and has the added benefit of making me look like a dickhead when i yell at the guitar player for not bothering to learn the guitar part note-for-note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 ...when i learned the Booker T & the MGs song "Hip Hug Her" i spent about 4 hours mapping the tempo in the conductor track. but, spending that much time with the piece immersed me in it and has the added benefit of making me look like a dickhead when i yell at the guitar player for not bothering to learn the guitar part note-for-note. Don't let the bastards get to you - blame it on the guitar player!!! ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by suitandtieguy well, i don't know about deciphering chords, but Power Tracks Pro is the best MIDI sequencer you can buy without having to own a macintosh (of course, then Numerology kicks everyone's ass.)the piano keyboard under the transport is what i would get it for if i were you. i guess it can figure the chords out, which sounds great to me.Band-In-A-Box is something to get if someone gives you a lead sheet to learn a tune and you need a way to listen to it, mute parts, etc.if you write songs BIAB is indespensible.btw, the best way i've found to learn a song by ear is to bring it into Digital Performer and make a tempo map for it, then learn it part by part and bar by bar by ear, sequencing as you go along.the tempo map is easy for Pet Shop Boys tunes, but when i learned the Booker T & the MGs song "Hip Hug Her" i spent about 4 hours mapping the tempo in the conductor track. but, spending that much time with the piece immersed me in it and has the added benefit of making me look like a dickhead when i yell at the guitar player for not bothering to learn the guitar part note-for-note. I thought about Band in a Box before. Isn't it redundant if I already have Sonar and other Soft Sequencers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LANSTARR Posted January 20, 2005 Members Share Posted January 20, 2005 Originally posted by wheresgrant3 Well... Upstate to you.... NYC to everyone west of Syracuse. I live in the MidHudson Valley... Dutchess county near Newburgh. An hour north of Manhattan on the Hudson. How is the music scene in that area, specifically original music scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.