OT: Religious fundamentalism and the environment

[The Audacity Works]

Originally posted by jigg I'm not terribly familiar with Islamic or Bhuddist text, but I do know that there is never such a call to arms in the New Testament, from which most modern Christianity takes its base (Mormonism is the only mainstream branch that doesn't).

The Book of Mormon contains plenty of violent Calls to Arms, even if the LDS Church no longer preaches it.

 

Fudamentalist Christians can't hold a candle to Fundamentalist Mormons, tho'. Every single Fundie Momo is completely bat{censored} insane or brainwashed beyond belief. When you willingly allow more than one of your preteen daughters to marry the 76-year-old town elder because God told him it was his divine right, then... um, yeah. When you spend millions of dollars digging a huge mine looking for riches the Angel Moroni allegedly left there to be found right before Armageddon... Uh...

 

As with Christianity, Fudamentalist Mormons categorically do not represent the rest of their religion's followers.

[chuckgp]

 

We are all servants of someone or something(s), no matter who much we try to say we are not. (The rent is due, the cat needs to be fed, I want a new synth, I'm horny, grandpa needs help. etc., ad nauseum.)

 

 

Especially if we're focused on a literal reality with literal Gods.

 

For those who suffer this outer-directed flaw, I suggest you look Within & transcend these temporal manifestations.

 

Try the Big Mind for once.

 

More than this, way beyond imagination.

 

Chuck

[eatsdrummachine]

 

Originally posted by jigg Normally, I wouldn't respond to a thread like this because, more often than not, these threads do tend to have at least some valid and reasonable argument. I've seen a lot of these arguments in the past, and some of them I agree with, even in light of the fact that I myself consider myself a Christian. Even with my beliefs, I'd like to think I have a reasonable capacity to recognize the faults in the system as well as the truths of the opposing view. I've also seen a lot of people here who approach this subject with that same level of understanding and open-mindedness. Unfortunately what I'm seeing here is nothing more than groupthink gone wrong. While I do agree on the point that the Republican-controlled gonvernment is doing absolutely no good for environmental policy, I would like to draw the clear distinction that every single person who believes in God (in whatever form) does not hold those same values, or lack thereof as the case may be. The classification of any/everyone who believes or claims to believe as a "nutjob" is wrong and unfair. This is simply a case of overgeneralization, something that we "christians" get accused of regularly in spite of the fact that most Christians I know are some of the least judgemental and most understanding people I've met. This is opposed to people I know who's sole purpose in life is to challenge anything remotely connected to established religion. They're generally very miserable people, very contentious, very argumentative. Yes, argument, debate, and dissention are good and necessary to meet an end. But, when these set the tone for any and every conversation you have with someone, something's wrong. That's the vibe I'm getting here. Organized religion is a major contributing factor to almost every major conflict in history, this is undeniable. Catholicism, Islam, hell, even Bhuddism and Hindi (figure that one out), they're all responisble for the truly massive wars (with the notable ecception of the great WWII, God rest General "Every-goddamn-day" Patton). But, these were the result of people taking the religion and corrupting it, using it for their own ends. I'm not terribly familiar with Islamic or Bhuddist text, but I do know that there is never such a call to arms in the New Testament, from which most modern Christianity takes its base (Mormonism is the only mainstream branch that doesn't). The teachings of Jesus, Paul, and the rest deal almost excusively with the individual, not the nation-state. These teachings completely invalidate any use of God as justification for a Holy War, as such a thing isn't physical, but spiritual and on a personal level. Personally, I was born and raised in a Christian home. I'm 26 and have had (and am still having to a certain extent) a few crises of faith. But, I still find that this works. It makes sense because of how it affects my life for the better. If you'll recall the South Park Episode, "All About Mormons?", the last lines are the best. I wish I had more time (and weren't at work) to flesh this out a little more. Point being, this thread is just as bad in its broad strokes, overgeneralizations and wrong ideas as any Jerry Falwell sermon or "christian" line of thought.

 

 

well observed. thanks, jigg:)

[snod911]

What I think is amazing is that evangelical Christians are generally oblivious to the irony that the very Christ they worship was handed over to be killed by fundamentalist religious literalists of the day. Does none of them see that as an indcitment of them, nor even as a warning? Maybe they're just so sure that they've got it all sorted out and systematized that they have no idea that they are in fact the modern day Sanhedrin.

[girevik]

 

Originally posted by chuckgp more valuble insights, for a start: http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/default.htm lemme know when y'all finish that. Chuck

 

 

I have to admit, I enjoy reading this type of speculative work from time to time (no I didn't finish reading this one).

 

I just read this book , which claims that Jesus was trying to promote Egyptian religion, with him playing Osiris to Mary Magdalene's Isis, and that Magdalene (Jesus' wife/lover) fled to France after losing a power struggle with Peter, who went on to found the male-dominated Catholic Church.

[girevik]

On second thought, I think SGC was right.

 

All of our so-called "God"s were actually evil Goa'uld System Lords, except of course the Scandinavian "gods", who were really a friendlier type of alien called the Asgard.

[jigg]

 

originally posted by snod911 What I think is amazing is that evangelical Christians...

 

 

Let me ask you this: how many Christians, evangelical or otherwise, do you know personally to which your statements apply?

[The Severalist]

Sorry for my posts, sometimes I just get so worked up when it comes to the christisan menace. You see, my uncle was eaten alive by rabid christians. When it comes to christianity nobody wins, only the losers win. I'm part chrisitian myself, on my step-fathers side, and between you and me, most chrisitians can't pray they're way out of paper bag, man, they're all out of what it takes to bust it loose!! And they take all the fun out of intolerance and prejiduice. I know these aren't very popular opinions, but, if you really think about it, deep in your heart, you'll know I'm completely right in every way.

 

Religion is how you treat other people, not how you should.

 

If your christian and you have a problem with my intruiging and provactive posts, then forgive me, not because you have to or are told to, but because it's the right thing to do, and if you don't you'll go to hell. How's that for motivation you magget!! Drop and give me eternity!!

[jigg]

Not bitter at all, are we?

Glad to see you've conquered your hostility and anger before coming to a clear-minded, thoughtful conclusion.

[The Severalist]

Originally posted by jigg Not bitter at all, are we? Glad to see you've conquered your hostility and anger before coming to a clear-minded, thoughtful conclusion.

 

Thanks. Finally someone with some hutzzpahh. Someone who see's me as the caring, thoughtful, un-hostile fluffy ball of love I was born to be. Anger is an invalid emmotion, just like sympathy.

[snod911]

 

Originally posted by jigg Let me ask you this: how many Christians, evangelical or otherwise, do you know personally to which your statements apply?

 

 

Are you serious? Tons! I am still a Christian, despite the fact that I was heavily involved with evangelical religiosity for a significant period in my life. I am still in touch with a lot of folks who are heavily involved in the evangelical movement, including a number who work on the staff of well-known organizations like Liberty and Regent Universities, Focus on the Family, Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship, the Navigators, and the Family Research Council, in addition to more mainline "conservative Christian" (an oxymoron if ever there were one) organizations such as the Fellowship, the Bush White House, Opus Dei, the Southern Baptist Church, etc. The list goes on and on (hey, I was a zealot there for awhile, just like Judas!).

 

To better answer your question about how many people I know who are Pharisitical and self-righteous in their approach to Christianity: a HUGE number of the folks I'm personally acquainted with in the evangelical movement really think that they've got Christianity systematized to a point where they'd say they have a pretty complete understanding of such huge things like the nature and personality of God and the way in which God operates in the universe. This incredible hubris is present at all levels of churches I've attended and evangelical organizations I've been involved with. These are the folks who get all up in arms about things like gay marriage and "bad" language on television and yet haven't a dime for hungry poor kids in their own communities.

 

Of course, to be fair, I myself have struggled with this uniquely un-Christian brand of hypocrisy. That's because it's a heck of a lot easier to focus on frivolities like the "decline" of society and all of the supposed calamity that is befalling our "divinely-ordained" American society than it is to actually love one's neighbor. I mean, heck, that's unglamorous--one surely couldn't win worldly power (let alone a national election) with such a boring, mushy, approach to religion, right?

 

Christ was betrayed by someone (Judas) who, as a zealot, was disenchanted with Jesus's lack of interest in taking the reins of worldly power, and ultimately handed over to be executed by folks who couldn't imagine that God could be as bleeding-heart liberal and totally forgiving as he actually is. Sad thing is, not much has changed here on Earth. Those same self-righteous folks are still persecuting God and his beloved children to this very day. And they're purporting to do it in the name of Christianity.

 

If you haven't met any of these people in your journey thus far, count yourself among the lucky few. Down here in Washington, we're beset by them.

 

J

[acoustictones]

You see, my uncle was eaten alive by rabid christians.

 

Canabalistic Christians??? WOW!!!

 

Glad we don't have to deal with that in our church. They're just trying to convert people at ours...I guess I got luck when we decided to go there...I didn't realize that we could end up in a church like your uncles.

 

Good luck to ya in your search

[Trillian]

Originally posted by acoustictones Canabalistic Christians??? WOW!!! Glad we don't have to deal with that in our church. They're just trying to convert people at ours...I guess I got luck when we decided to go there...I didn't realize that we could end up in a church like your uncles. Good luck to ya in your search

 

Well, the Catholic communion always struck me as symbolic cannibalism. The priest says "body of christ" as he hands the person a 'host' (I think it's called, it's a little round bread-like thing) and then they eat it.

 

Supposedly Christ said "take this bread and eat it, this is my body, etc. etc. do this in memory of me".

 

Personally I don't think Jesus ever said that, I think a whole lot of that stuff was made up by the early christian churches.

 

Think about it, if your 'hero' or whatever had a supper and invited you and then said "take this bread and eat it, this is my body" you'd say "whoah, dude, like what have you been smokin man?" because that couldn't have been a very common thing for people to do even back then. His apostles would have been pretty shocked to hear something like that and they would probably, like most people, be a bit grossed out and yet the Catholics accept that without ever questioning it.

 

'Wacky stuff man,

 

-sheryl

[moosethree]

seeing as how Martin Luther King was a believing Christian as was President Jimmy Carter, as allegedly is Bill Clinton (Baptist) and Al Gore and my others of non-Republican persuasion.......considering Christianity in Catholic Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelical, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Quaker bodies are extremely diverse.....and considering the millions who died under "secular" governments in Germany, Russia, Mao's China, Cambodia's killing fields...and that there are many Evangellical Environmental organizations advocating stewardship of the environment....the prejudicial, pejorative, hate speech filled comments in this thread resemble Neo Marxist insanity....

[acoustictones]

Originally posted by moosethree seeing as how Martin Luther King was a believing Christian as was President Jimmy Carter, as allegedly is Bill Clinton (Baptist) and Al Gore and my others of non-Republican persuasion.......considering Christianity in Catholic Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelical, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Quaker bodies are extremely diverse.....and considering the millions who died under "secular" governments in Germany, Russia, Mao's China, Cambodia's killing fields...and that there are many Evangellical Environmental organizations advocating stewardship of the environment....the prejudicial, pejorative, hate speech filled comments in this thread resemble Neo Marxist insanity....

Now how's that for the mans VERY FIRST post.

 

Welcome to the community. Enjoy!

[mytee2.0]

Originally posted by moosethree seeing as how Martin Luther King was a believing Christian as was President Jimmy Carter, as allegedly is Bill Clinton (Baptist) and Al Gore and my others of non-Republican persuasion.......considering Christianity in Catholic Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelical, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Quaker bodies are extremely diverse.....and considering the millions who died under "secular" governments in Germany, Russia, Mao's China, Cambodia's killing fields...and that there are many Evangellical Environmental organizations advocating stewardship of the environment....the prejudicial, pejorative, hate speech filled comments in this thread resemble Neo Marxist insanity....

 

thats a whoooole lot of gobbledeegook to consider.

 

[snod911]

 

Originally posted by moosethree seeing as how Martin Luther King was a believing Christian as was President Jimmy Carter, as allegedly is Bill Clinton (Baptist) and Al Gore and my others of non-Republican persuasion.......considering Christianity in Catholic Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic, Evangelical, Charismatic, Pentecostal, Quaker bodies are extremely diverse.....and considering the millions who died under "secular" governments in Germany, Russia, Mao's China, Cambodia's killing fields...and that there are many Evangellical Environmental organizations advocating stewardship of the environment....the prejudicial, pejorative, hate speech filled comments in this thread resemble Neo Marxist insanity....

 

 

LOL, I'm not quite sure what all of that means (did we just see an allusion to the killing fields? haha), but one thing is certain: I don't think anybody here has attacked all "Christians,"

just the hypocritical ones (of whatever political stripe) whose self-righteousness and desire for power outweighs their love of their neighbor and--by extension--the world we have to all share

 

In other words, if the shoe fits, erm...do something with it. If not, rest assured, nobody's got a problem with you.

[acoustictones]

Originally posted by myteeGTi thats a whoooole lot of gobbledeegook to consider.

Great picture. It either says a lot OR nothing at all.

 

What a fun little post this has been (aka: What a long strange trip it has been...Greatful Dead)

[eatsdrummachine]

 

Originally posted by The Severalist Sorry for my posts, sometimes I just get so worked up when it comes to the christisan menace.

 

 

just who are these christisans and why are they such a menace? are they related to washington state's famous 'artisians'? you know- the one's who lived in wells in the 80s brewing raineer beer.

[eatsdrummachine]

Originally posted by snod911 What I think is amazing is that evangelical Christians are generally oblivious to the irony that the very Christ they worship was handed over to be killed by fundamentalist religious literalists of the day. Does none of them see that as an indcitment of them, nor even as a warning? Maybe they're just so sure that they've got it all sorted out and systematized that they have no idea that they are in fact the modern day Sanhedrin.

 

I'd say most people are living fairly simple lives and really don't have a tremendous amount of political power, as our system tends to focus that power in the hands of few. obviously the agenda of the religious right has been marketed very successfully to much of america. but I don't know what christ has to do with that- the wealthy men that founded the RR aren't christians (!).

 

to me the tragedy of our current political process is the polarization of the public- the black and white view of issues. and sadly much of that mentality has shown up on this thread- come up with an emotionally based opinion- overgeneralize- throw out some slappy comments that box up others' views and there it is. instant jargon! feed for the static.

 

anyways......

[chuckgp]

 

Personally I don't think Jesus ever said that, I think a whole lot of that stuff was made up by the early christian churches.

 

 

Jesus never said anything, myths don't verbalize.

 

 

Think about it, if your 'hero' or whatever had a supper and invited you and then said "take this bread and eat it, this is my body" you'd say "whoah, dude, like what have you been smokin man?" because that couldn't have been a very common thing for people to do even back then. His apostles would have been pretty shocked to hear something like that and they would probably, like most people, be a bit grossed out and yet the Catholics accept that without ever questioning it.

 

 

Try:

Mushrooms and Mankind, James Arthur

The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, John Allegro

 

Then you will see what they were talking about, and what a travesty anything Catholic/Christian is.

 

Hope we're enjoying our Pagan Lent now. 40 days...right.

40 days for Tammuz.

 

Chuck

[chuckgp]

Fun facts about Easter:

 

http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect32.htm

 

 

'What's Christ go to do, got to do with it?'

 

Chuck

[mytee2.0]

Originally posted by chuckgp Jesus never said anything, myths don't verbalize.

 

quote of the year right there

[chuckgp]

 

and yet the Catholics accept that without ever questioning it.

 

 

oh, yes; see 'Sheep' -- Animals -- Pink Floyd

 

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;

Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.

You better watch out,

There may be dogs about

I

[Trillian]

The Floyd did some brilliant stuff. I have that album on vinyl but I really should get it on CD. It imortalised the image of the Battersea power station for me.

 

-Sheryl