ATTN: Gegg&H

[jnurp]

good lord this fiasco again. Iscout is about as dirty as they come.

[budkingston]

ON THE OTHER hand, I think Gegg&H is responsible for realizing that he is dealing with an evasive douchebag with a weaker moral fibre than he'd like to believe, and hence that Gegg&H may be better off taking the $64 and moving on.

On August 15th, around noon, check your watch...

Know then that I will still be laughing because of this one. I would quote it if I didn't already wish that it was over.

[Gegg&H]

Some of you may be unfamiliar with the situation so I feel it is worthwhile to briefly explain how we arrived at this point.

About 6 months ago I listed a guitar FS/FT here, I was contacted by IS and we agreed on a trade. I made the mistake of shipping my guitar first, and once he had the tracking info in hand he approached other HC members and worked out another deal. By the time my guitar arrived at his house he had already shipped out the guitar that was supposed to have been mine. At this point he starts to tell me that it is snowing and nothing will get in or out, and that the guitar is needed in order to finish a recording project. I finally get pissed and call him out on the forum and lo and behold a bunch of people come out of the woodwork with similar complaints. I received several PMs from people who claim that he was trying to trade away my guitar. I doubt the guitar was used just once since I received multiple emails from him telling me how much he loved the guitar; he had it in his possesion for more than one day( all the while telling me he will send me his end of the trade even though he no longer owned it).

The smell was incredibly strong, I tried airing it out at my office but it smelled so bad they made me take it home. I live in a small apartment and do not have a balcony or a garage, and having it home for 1 day my whole place stunk. I took it to my luthier because I felt more comfortable having him address it, I boxed up the case for 2 weeks with 8 packets of baking soda and it still stunk. Here is an excerpt from a PM I received while I was still trying to get my guitar back:

"Oh, and I hope it dosen't come back reeking like an ashtray, that was my only complaint with him, took me # weeks to get the smell down, had to leave the guitar and case in the garage it stunk up the whole place so bad, I had to trade it localy to a store for a lose cause I couldn't stand the smell!

I have other PMs from members with similar stories.

My Luthier said to pitch it when it still smelled after 2 weeks, I offered to give it to him for free and he didn't want it. I don't smoke and none of my other guitars had been exposed to smoke so I had no use for it. In fact, other guitars that I have come across from people who smoke never smelled like this. I live in a 2 room apartment and did not want do deal with the smell so I tossed it; whether others feel this is irrational it was my choice, and you have no idea how bad it smelt.

I think I am being reasonable here, he keeps promising to pay me and never does. I have been out the money for months, and to be honest I havent even picked up the Ibanez because of all the negativity associated with it.

I have no problem providing a receipt and contact info for my luthier, but based on interchanges that I have seen here on the forum I don't want to expose him to verbal abuse.

I am out well over the amount I am asking for, and when you factor in all the hours of wasted time, frustration, transportation costs etc. the number is even larger.

I thought I was being more than fair with what I asked for...... I PM'd him my rationale since I felt it was better left between us, but if I am way off base here let me know.

I just want this over with, but don't feel that I should be the one absorbing the cost for his attempt to defraud me.

[MRAAJR]

pwnt.....pay money then /thread

[Large]

Some of you may be unfamiliar with the situation so I feel it is worthwhile to briefly explain how we arrived at this point. About 6 months ago I listed a guitar FS/FT here, I was contacted by IS and we agreed on a trade. I made the mistake of shipping my guitar first, and once he had the tracking info in hand he approached other HC members and worked out another deal. By the time my guitar arrived at his house he had already shipped out the guitar that was supposed to have been mine. At this point he starts to tell me that it is snowing and nothing will get in or out, and that the guitar is needed in order to finish a recording project. I finally get pissed and call him out on the forum and lo and behold a bunch of people come out of the woodwork with similar complaints. I received several PMs from people who claim that he was trying to trade away my guitar. I doubt the guitar was used just once since I received multiple emails from him telling me how much he loved the guitar; he had it in his possesion for more than one day( all the while telling me he will send me his end of the trade even though he no longer owned it). The smell was incredibly strong, I tried airing it out at my office but it smelled so bad they made me take it home. I live in a small apartment and do not have a balcony or a garage, and having it home for 1 day my whole place stunk. I took it to my luthier because I felt more comfortable having him address it, I boxed up the case for 2 weeks with 8 packets of baking soda and it still stunk. Here is an excerpt from a PM I received while I was still trying to get my guitar back: "Oh, and I hope it dosen't come back reeking like an ashtray, that was my only complaint with him, took me # weeks to get the smell down, had to leave the guitar and case in the garage it stunk up the whole place so bad, I had to trade it localy to a store for a lose cause I couldn't stand the smell! I have other PMs from members with similar stories. My Luthier said to pitch it when it still smelled after 2 weeks, I offered to give it to him for free and he didn't want it. I don't smoke and none of my other guitars had been exposed to smoke so I had no use for it. In fact, other guitars that I have come across from people who smoke never smelled like this. I live in a 2 room apartment and did not want do deal with the smell so I tossed it; whether others feel this is irrational it was my choice, and you have no idea how bad it smelt. I think I am being reasonable here, he keeps promising to pay me and never does. I have been out the money for months, and to be honest I havent even picked up the Ibanez because of all the negativity associated with it. I have no problem providing a receipt and contact info for my luthier, but based on interchanges that I have seen here on the forum I don't want to expose him to verbal abuse. I am out well over the amount I am asking for, and when you factor in all the hours of wasted time, frustration, transportation costs etc. the number is even larger. I thought I was being more than fair with what I asked for...... I PM'd him my rationale since I felt it was better left between us, but if I am way off base here let me know. I just want this over with, but don't feel that I should be the one absorbing the cost for his attempt to defraud me.

You're being completely reasonable, but at this point (as one member suggested), it's time to cut your losses. I'd take the shipping from Indianscout, and never deal with him again.

My 2c.

[damian23]

waaaaahhhhhhh waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh waahhhhahahhahahhhhhhh stfu

[Gegg&H]

waaaaahhhhhhh waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh waahhhhahahhahahhhhhhh stfu

Since you consider losing several hundred dollars to be trivial why don't you pay me what I'm out?

[THSea]

hey damian23, I have a one of a kind gibson I"ll trade you for your rig. You ship first.

[damian23]

Losing several hundred dollars guy? You paid an F'ing luthier over a hundy to clean your stinky guitar bwahhhh hahahaha. That is lame I dont care what the Indian clown did. Then you threw away the case?! Really? Really? Come on guy take the shipping money and just stop it. You all are bugging me. Him for being a well documented ass, you for being such a clean freak, and every other piling on clown. Go get into a contest of nanny nanny booboo with a 5 year old and let these two work it out. If you wont take the shipping money which is all you are out if you wouldnt have taken a guitar to be taken apart to be cleaned and be done with it. Or just ask for a F'ing million for your pain and suffering.

P.s. the sea I got a rig hangin. Ive only had good deals with good people the guy got his guitar back. Thats the bottom line hes acting like he never got it back. Now the other clown is offering to pay for the shipping and hes still whinning

[SnoMan97]

Losing several hundred dollars guy? You paid an F'ing luthier over a hundy to clean your stinky guitar bwahhhh hahahaha. That is lame I dont care what the Indian clown did. Then you threw away the case?! Really? Really? Come on guy take the shipping money and just stop it. You all are bugging me. Him for being a well documented ass, you for being such a clean freak, and every other piling on clown. Go get into a contest of nanny nanny booboo with a 5 year old and let these two work it out. If you wont take the shipping money which is all you are out if you wouldnt have taken a guitar to be taken apart to be cleaned and be done with it. Or just ask for a F'ing million for your pain and suffering. P.s. the sea I got a rig hangin. Ive only had good deals with good people the guy got his guitar back. Thats the bottom line hes acting like he never got it back. Now the other clown is offering to pay for the shipping and hes still whinning

What an assclown.

[shredtilurded]

Losing several hundred dollars guy? You paid an F'ing luthier over a hundy to clean your stinky guitar bwahhhh hahahaha. That is lame I dont care what the Indian clown did. Then you threw away the case?! Really? Really? Come on guy take the shipping money and just stop it. You all are bugging me. Him for being a well documented ass, you for being such a clean freak, and every other piling on clown. Go get into a contest of nanny nanny booboo with a 5 year old and let these two work it out. If you wont take the shipping money which is all you are out if you wouldnt have taken a guitar to be taken apart to be cleaned and be done with it. Or just ask for a F'ing million for your pain and suffering. P.s. the sea I got a rig hangin. Ive only had good deals with good people the guy got his guitar back. Thats the bottom line hes acting like he never got it back. Now the other clown is offering to pay for the shipping and hes still whinning

If we're bugging you that much, why post in the thread?

[lndianScout]

ok I finally had enough and placed a call to my attorney yesterday..

here's some questions and other facts he was asking about

1 here is your orig ad.



2 here's your ad you placed here on HC..

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2254219

in none of those ads do you state that these items come from a smoke free home or business, that you do not wish to do business with 1 either a working musicians that plays in bars or 2 anyone who smokes..

anyone that knows me, knows I am a working musician who plays in bars, it's been stated here on the forums many many many times..

here are some pics of the guitar..





3 the lawyer asked what proof do we have that the case was discarded..

4 he would like an itemized invoice showing exactly the work that was performed to remove the smell, when a couple sprays of several over the country items will also do the same thing..

5 the guitar we were to trade for was an Epiphone Les Paul who spent 6+ months gigging in bars, which would of also carried with it the smells of a working musician..

6 he asks for a reciept for the new case

7 he asks why you would put out $100's you are claiming on an Ibanez that shows wear when you were trading it for an Epiphone Les Paul straight across..

8 he would like to know EXACTLY how smoke keeps anyone from playing the guitar when it was returned in the exact same playing condition you sent it in.

he also stated that "implied" non verbal or written contracts have no basis in law.. accept (Implied contracts are those that are not written down, but perfectly understood) there was no implied, oral or written contract about smoking or supposed smoke damage explicitly made. The subject was never brought up..

these are some of the questions he has, so I am asking you for him, unlike your reluctance to provide your luthiers name, I CAN provide my Attorney's name..

Indian

[BuggyMan]

Losing several hundred dollars guy? You paid an F'ing luthier over a hundy to clean your stinky guitar bwahhhh hahahaha. That is lame I dont care what the Indian clown did. Then you threw away the case?! Really? Really? Come on guy take the shipping money and just stop it. You all are bugging me. Him for being a well documented ass, you for being such a clean freak, and every other piling on clown. Go get into a contest of nanny nanny booboo with a 5 year old and let these two work it out. If you wont take the shipping money which is all you are out if you wouldnt have taken a guitar to be taken apart to be cleaned and be done with it. Or just ask for a F'ing million for your pain and suffering. P.s. the sea I got a rig hangin. Ive only had good deals with good people the guy got his guitar back. Thats the bottom line hes acting like he never got it back. Now the other clown is offering to pay for the shipping and hes still whinning

Man, I thought you were a cool dude until I seen your post from last night. Either you were high, bi-polar or the real you finally showed.

You must have a thick {censored}ing skull not see what a {censored}ing idiot you have been. I get it, all fun and games for you. But you are the only guy coming across here that needs to spit his momma teat out of his mouth. I usually keep my thoughts and comments to myself, but you just acted like a total {censored}ing dick all night.

And Scout, you and I have been friends for a long time, and I have watched all these threads over all these forums, and I have to say, the way things have gone down for you in the past few months on here are way out of sort for you and I have to say you have not handled yourself well. I know deep down you are a great guy, you {censored}ed up. Instead of throwing insults and making it worse, you really should try to make amends. I understand real life got bad, but you should have acted like an adult and walked away from any trades/deals until things got stable. And you should do better to keep your deals straight with who is getting what and who is sending you what for what.

Now asking for legal advise may seem like a good idea, but if you went to court, you would lose. It is cut and dry. You got the goods in good faith and it was your responsibility to either follow through with the original deal or return the goods in ORIGINAL CONDITION. I know you have your customs and what not, but legally, it was not you property to preform these rituals on.

And as far as the deal you guys had originally, I think he would have been just as upset with the smell of the guitar he would have gotten from you. It was partly his fault for not asking about smells, as it was mine when we dealt in the past. But I have learned to ask from now on. And most people "assume" it is smoke free and clean. 90% of the deals here or anywhere are. And are expected to be or otherwise stated ahead of time.

And the comment of it seen as insult to remove the smell.. Well, to some people it is an insult to add it. I know you are defending your rights and all, but you are not the ONLY person that has rights. And in the case, you are wrong and had no right. The guitar was not legally yours like I said before.

I know you can't just shell out the cash due to your situation. But I would suggest making it right in payments or what not.

I look at from Greggh side and yours and from my own. Greggh is 100% correct in the idea of you couldn't follow through w/ the deal for what ever reason, you should return the guitar to him ASAP 100% Condition he sent it to you. I know you think the tobacco smell is "no big deal, it goes away", but it is. I mean what Greggh heritage had a ritual that smears poo (or worse) all over the guitar and sent it to you that way? Get my point?

The argument of you should get the case because "You have to pay for it" I can see that, but I also see that he would not had to toss it if it was returned to him as it was sent...

Unlike him, I had a garage to to clean the Strat I got from you. But it HAD to be left out there for 3 or more weeks to get the smell out.(never really did and to be clear, this is not just the "average smoker" or "gigging in smoking bars" either, this was full on knock you over smell. I can't even think of what it was like, I had never smelled it that strong before or since) I never complained to you, I took as a lesson learned, this is why I ask ahead of time now. But had been my guitar returned to me for what ever reason and it smelled like that, we would have had issues like you and he do now.

With it all being said and done, I know you are good guy who {censored}ed up for what ever reason. But in the end, regardless of race, religion or whatnot, it is up to YOU to make it right as HUMAN BEING. Much less your heritage. I know you were/are an honorable man, and I would like you to return to that. What ever it takes.

I've always had respect for you man. I would like to think I wasn't wrong.

You guys can attack me all you want. Steve you can attack me too, but I felt the need to say what I said in the open. I have had enough of the name calling, and all the bull{censored} involved. Like I said before, I know you are better than this and this place has become a {censored}ing adolescent playground full of people that don't seem to have the common sense to wipe their own ass, much less contribute anything worth while on here. And for the few that do, thank you.

[damian23]

"this place has become a {censored}ing adolescent playground full of people that don't seem to have the common sense to wipe their own ass, much less contribute anything worth while on here."

 

My exact point. The crying was directed towards all the idiots who have nothing to contribute but lame hateful statements not Greggh. I do think he was being anal but thats just me. He got back his guitar with some headaches but he got it. You'd think by all his following the guy around forum to forum and {censored} that he never got his guitar back. I for damn sure think the dude owes him the shipping money but asking for all the pain and suffering money is excessive in my OPINION.

 

Point is Buggy man I feel like youre a cool dude and you would damn sure feel like Im a cool dude if you met me but this thread should have been dead long ago. EVERYONE knows what an ass IS made of himself. All the piling on is just pissing me off and I dont even know the guy. So yeah if the real me is sick and tired of dudes who had nothing to do with the deal spewing pages and pages of negativity thats me.

 

So if it came across dicky Im sorry I never personally attacked the guy like you did me and I should have never even commented, but dont bring my momma into this joke of a thread and dont try to be an internet tough guy or Im gonna lose respect for you. Im a grown man you can talk to me like one.

[BuggyMan]

"this place has become a {censored}ing adolescent playground full of people that don't seem to have the common sense to wipe their own ass, much less contribute anything worth while on here." My exact point. The crying was directed towards all the idiots who have nothing to contribute but lame hateful statements not Greggh. I do think he was being anal but thats just me. He got back his guitar with some headaches but he got it. You'd think by all his following the guy around forum to forum and {censored} that he never got his guitar back. I for damn sure think the dude owes him the shipping money but asking for all the pain and suffering money is excessive in my OPINION. Point is Buggy man I feel like youre a cool dude and you would damn sure feel like Im a cool dude if you met me but this thread should have been dead long ago. EVERYONE knows what an ass IS made of himself. All the piling on is just pissing me off and I dont even know the guy. So yeah if the real me is sick and tired of dudes who had nothing to do with the deal spewing pages and pages of negativity thats me. So if it came across dicky Im sorry I never personally attacked the guy like you did me and I should have never even commented, but dont bring my momma into this joke of a thread and dont try to be an internet tough guy or Im gonna lose respect for you. Im a grown man you can talk to me like one.

Never brought your mother in and never would.

My comment is about ALL your post last night. Take a look at what all you said last night man. You were is a mood or something, and you just came across negative in just about every post you made last night.

I agree, this whole mess should have died long ago. But at the same time, IS should have made everything right too. Think about it, if he had done this to you, you would be pissed too and expect it to be fixed. And IS is a friend of mine and I am pissed at him for letting this happen and then carry on like it has.

And I'm not trying to be internet tough guy. But the way you came across is just added to the pile of BS mounting farther than it needs to be. And It just bugged the hell out of me. I just happen upon the same threads as you last night and your post just got to me (and others). The very thing you are sick of, I am too, and it seems like you were just fanning the flames.

I'm sorry I came off like a dick. And sorry I personally attacked you. But I felt something had to be said.

Now I say we meet for a beer sometime if I ever make it to your neck of the woods or you to mine

[Gegg&H]

IS-Really!!!

You are now paying consultation fees to an attorney over $200.

PM his contact information, I'd love to talk to this guy. Sounds like it will be an entertaining prospect.

You actually have a liscenced attorney telling you that you are free to do whatever you want to property that does not belong to you and you have zero culpability?

Did you explain to him the scheme that you had embarked on in which you committed the same guitar to multiple people, and then told lie after lie to cover up; is he aware that you have done this multiple times?. Is he aware of the 100s of pages here and on other forums that destroy every shred of credibility you could possible have. That combined with barage of insults that you repeatedly hurl at others.

Any lawyer will tell you that the minute you took possesion of my guitar you assumed 100% responsibility for its well being. I can easily verify that non of my guitars contain any odors, and you have publicly admitted to subjecting my guitar, which you happened to have obtained fraudulently, to a ritual that embeds a vile stench in the guitar. Buggyman has just corroborated the extent to which the odors linger, and has stated that he was forced to get rid of the guitar at a loss because this vile stench devalued the guitar.

I don't understand how half the points you raised are relevant, but I would be more than happy to explain civil law to your attorney. Through Buggymans statement it has been established that the stench is offensive and effects the playability of the guitar. He could not even bring the guitar/case into the house which supports my having to dispose of the case. I don't have to prove that the case is gone, it would be my word agaisnt yours and at this point who do you think has more credibility.

The cost of shipping was $63.54, and I am only asking for an additional $136.46 to cover a portion of the monies that I am out. Any attorney would tell you that I am being reasonable and you have absolutely no legal position here!

If you really want me to speak with your attorney I will be more than happy to, but is it really necessary? I am only trying to get a portion of what I am out, most of our fellow forum members here seem to support my position.

Why does this need to be so hard?

[MRAAJR]

three "non-classifieds" threads in teh classifieds forum....let just abolish the classifieds and make a forum where we talk about selling and trading and the BS associated with it but do no actual selling

[damian23]

I WAS in a mood. Its like MRJAAJR is saying. I was tired of seeing this crap and reading all these internet bad asses spew crap in a for sale forum. Point is I should have bit my lip but enough is enough. About that beer Im in but Id rather bourbon on the rocks:)

[schiz]

"this place has become a {censored}ing adolescent playground full of people that don't seem to have the common sense to wipe their own ass, much less contribute anything worth while on here."

Spoken like a true hero.

Now stfu.

Like Buggy said a couple posts ago, "you have shown your true colors."

[schiz]

three "non-classifieds" threads in teh classifieds forum....let just abolish the classifieds and make a forum where we talk about selling and trading and the BS associated with it but do no actual selling

It is your prerogative whether or not you read this. So why bitch when you do read it?

[BuggyMan]

I WAS in a mood. Its like MRJAAJR is saying. I was tired of seeing this crap and reading all these internet bad asses spew crap in a for sale forum. Point is I should have bit my lip but enough is enough. About that beer Im in but Id rather bourbon on the rocks:)

I'm down with bourbon on the rocks!

[strangegrey]

IS, Greg's point is valid and legally sound.

 

You {censored}ed up....you own him 200 bucks.

[damian23]

dear schismed,

[lndianScout]

IS, Greg's point is valid and legally sound. You {censored}ed up....you own him 200 bucks.

200 my ass..

provide me with the case and reciept, and yes I do have a licensed attorney on this, I happen to be related to him...

if you want to be so anal about smoking, pick another trade, not everyone plays in their bedroom, some of us do it for a living...

I've not been provided {censored} for proof until then no I will not pay a dime..

and that's all she wrote..

I never tried to scam you, I find it pretty funny everyone else I have paid, but I will NOT be extorted into paying you some stupid {censored}ing amount on a guitar you were willing to trade for a Epi LP,

you can't provide me with proof you disposed of the case, which if I'm going to pay for I have a right to own, 2 nothing in any of your ads explained that you are anal about smoking and only play at home and not professionally, 3, you still have not provided me with a Luther receipt and contact info so my uncle who is a federal judge can contact them, as my uncle put it, unless you put it in writing or verbally, you cant sue me for something you only thought about.. I'm not a {censored}ing mind reader.....

you're story has too many holes in it, not will I be blackmailed into paying you or you'll continue to smear my name, smear away, I can log off this forums deal with my rez friends and not give 2 thoughts to what the hell happens here..

I tell you what, the only place you can sue me is on my reservation, I am not subject to your state laws, so bring your happy ass on up to my reservation and we'll see what happens,

until then stfu, you whine more than my wife..

I'm thru trading here, this is a kindergarten of adolescence retards who have nothing better to do than pile someone.,

for those with the big mouth who are not involved, how about you take our opinion and shove it up your ass..

end of story

[wwjd388]

People on here don't want to be scammed by me anymore because of you and now I'm pissed. For that I wont pay up and you can't touch me because I live on a reservation and we have a BS way of doings things here. Boo Hoo, woe is me for not getting away without a scratch.

Summarized for your convenience.