Members Tusks Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Please listen to the Minimax and Minimoog examples on this page: http://www1.keyboards.de/magazine/m0303/303040wp.html Bablefish translated the German to English as ...The sound examples contain the original Minimoog sound on the left channel and the sound of mini max on the right. Since with the mini max the automatic controller positions correspond to the original, for the examples Minimoog Patch Charts were consulted and both instruments were identically adjusted. Heard them? Now I'd like to hear what you think. Does this affect your view of whether internet auditions are helpful in making choices between synthesizers? Thanks in advance, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 thats kind of silly having them playing at the same time. i always thought this was a great comparison of ra vs va. oh.. and my opinion on mp3 synth demos? they certianly help guide my decisions but do not exclusively govern them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mytee2.0 Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Originally posted by flukewurm thats kind of silly having them playing at the same time. i always thought this was a great comparison of ra vs va.oh.. and my opinion on mp3 synth demos? they certianly help guide my decisions but do not exclusively govern them. corrected link... http://www.berfmurret.com/xxx/Real-and-Virtual.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keka Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 I went with the Mini moog.. I only realy noticed a difference on a couple patches The second patch sounds thicker on the Minimoog. The last patch you can hear the filter crackle from the resonance being too high on the mini max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 23, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 It's too early tell if there is a consensus. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nectarios Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 I have had a play with a Mini, more with a Voyager and even more with the Minimax since my old housemate had a SCOPE system.I think the Minimax and the Creamware plugs have the best sounding soft synths out there.But I would choose the real deal anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChipCurtis Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 While on the subject of Minimoog/clone comparisons, here is another one, but this is between a free softsynth clone and the Voyager (also a Minimonsta comparison): http://www.home.no/gunnare/sound.htm Disclaimer: I do take particular pride in this free softsynth as I helped to develop it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Qwave Posted November 23, 2005 Members Share Posted November 23, 2005 Sorry, but in the thrid example you hear steps in the filter sweep! So this is neither a perfect Minimoog clone nor a good analog sound to me. If you own real analogs and spend with them more then a few years (20+ years here with real Moogs, including a Minimoog), you hear the difference. And about the comparison: if one does a test like this, why not trying to make the actally heard attacks of both units at he same moment by editing the audio tracks? By means of Midi there is most likely no "at the very same time" at all. Unless one uses a real great multiple channel interface and optimized software. And was the Minimoog one with the older or the newer OScillators? And it was most likely a midified one or played by a Midi/CV converter. And this is also different from playing a Mini by its own keyboard. the slew rate of the voltages is different from interface to interface. And if one would use audio FM of the thrid oscillator to a self oscillating filter with envelope modulation for such an example, the difference would be even worse. Try this with other software Moog clones. You would be suprised on how different this will sound in character. Digital is not equal to analog. But digital also got advantages if we talk about polyphonic oscilator tuning and scalling. Or unmatched filter chips, or the price tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moogerfooger Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 as the proud owner of 2 mini's I am a little biased. go figure by my handle- the test could have negated this bias by not saying which is which and just vote for the left or right -- that being said -- the results are overwhelmingly in favor of the original which doesn't supprise me. But i have to say that by the time you get the sounds in a mix -- it would be hard to tell the difference, and the clones sounds are indeed usable. the mini sounds are fatter -- it's hard to get a fatter sound than a mini -- and the filter and mods are much smoother, and complex -- but I wouldn't mind having a minimax in my arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 24, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 Ok, here are my observations. Clearly this is not an ideal audition environment, but it's better than playing the Minimax with a "memory" of how a Mini sounded. With that caveat: Clip #1 - faster attack on the mini's filter envelopes. There is a low frequency wack that is not present on the Minimax. Secondly the fundamental is better supported on the Mini. Almost like having a sine wave doubling the fundamental but without that disconnected sound you get if you actually use additive techniques. Clearly the Mini is a bass monster, the Minimax less so. Clip #2 - The mini's oscillators are sloppier, the Minimax tighter. There is more fundamental in the Mini's sound yet again, but there is also (subjectively) more high frequency content allowed through the filter. Clearly both synths are capable of strong leads. This particular Mini is pretty sloppy and big. I'd love to know which edition it was, and which edition Creamware modeled the Minimax after. Clip#3 - I thought the two synths were more similar than dissimilar on this. I didn't hear any pronounced stepping, just the emphasis of the harmonics on the sweep. I'd give the Minimax very high marks in this comparison. The can both do very nice filter sweeps and drones, IMO. Clip #4 - The blips are tighter and more forward on the Mini than they are on the Minimax. Again, I just think this mini's envelopes are faster, allowing more bass/percussion potential. Of course we don't know how they aligned the volumes. We don't know how precise they were in dialing in the values. But I think these kinds of auditions are a very good way of telling what an emulator does well and what it does less well. For bass, blips and thips I would miss the Mini, but for leads, pads, and sweeps, I don't think I would. Comments? Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alfonso Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 I'm also biased, because I own Minimax, both in Scope and in Noah. This said, my impressions of this test are very similar to Tusks', on a technical side. I'd add that the 2 synths show some difference in the cutoff curve representation on the knobs, but it's something that happens also between 2 analog units of the same production line, the Minimax ranges are maybe slightly wider. What has been confirmed to my ear is that the Minimax is incredibly close to the original in terms of timbral personality, that's something that i never found in any other emulation. What is also impressive of the Minimax is how nice is the sound it can produce at the very extremes of the band. Leaving out for a moment the comparison with the Mini (I'd say "a" Mini), I've never heard any other digital synth, cpu or dedicated dsp, sound so good at the extremes of my 88keys controller. The frequencies are there, all of them, nice and aliasing free. If it was "identical" to the Mini the guys at CW should have won a Nobel Prize, that's not the case, but they can be surely be acclaimed to have done a little miracle of quality....let's remember these are math codes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roald Posted November 24, 2005 Members Share Posted November 24, 2005 why not buy a NOAH-EX. has 13poly for the minimax, you can do all the emulations, including ARP Ody, Pro-one, B2003, costs 599eur (!!!!) in germany. an absolute steal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Hey, that's a good price. Of course you don't get the interface, but it may not matter for studio use. For others, the attraction of the ASB is something simple, tweakable with a 100% sweet spot. The fact that it sounds a bit like a mini is a bonus. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carbon111 Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Actually the sound is rather uncanny, right down to audio-rate filter FM. No aliasing, no stepping whatsoever. I wouldn't judge by internet MP3s though...go play one. It is easily the best VA I have ever heard - and I've heard quite a few. And that same awful/wonderful interface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Ok, so maybe this is a good point to ask how a comparison like this affects your thinking. My first thought was, "this is so far from a real Mini, why not spend the dough on a more fully featured VA?" My second thought was, "a 100% sweet spot synth is still a nice thing. James, I know you are in your honeymoon phase, but was there a hole in the sonic spectrum that was unadressed by the PEK, the Serge, the Waldorfs, the ... Does the Minimax address that hole? Or is this primarily a user interface thing for you? Thanks, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 13ghostsofscoobydoo Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Unrelated- but can you use the Minimax without a computer? As a standalone VA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members keanu reeves Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Originally posted by 13ghostsofscoobydoo Unrelated- but can you use the Minimax without a computer? As a standalone VA? yes the minimax is a standalone va. www.creamware.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carbon111 Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 Originally posted by Tusks James, I know you are in your honeymoon phase, but was there a hole in the sonic spectrum that was unadressed by the PEK, the Serge, the Waldorfs, the ... Does the Minimax address that hole? Or is this primarily a user interface thing for you? Thanks, Jerry Its the sound of this thing I'm jazzed about. Its very different than my other gear...the closest thing would be my Moog Prodigy but its not polyphonic, has no noise source and can't do audio-rate filter FM, one of my favorite effects. The next nearest sounding synth would be the PEK, it will do the FM trick but its a different sounding beast entirely. Bottom line is that,with its effects shut off, the Minimax sounds remarkably like a particular 30 year old keyboard. Its truely scarey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members idiotboy Posted November 25, 2005 Members Share Posted November 25, 2005 FWIW, here is another good comparison page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Milos Posted November 26, 2005 Members Share Posted November 26, 2005 I tried Arturia's and G media's minimoog clones and I'm more into G-Media's Minimonsta-I never played Creamware Minimax but Minimonsta comes to the 2nd place of emulation of analog synthesizers(the 1st one is the Wayoutware Timewarp ).I hope Wayoutwares next product will be clone of Minimoog:thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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