OT: Update on ADD/ADHD meds

[Birdienumnum]

Hi everyone, I'm writing this because in the past I've had several threads about my adult ADD and the medication I was taking for it, Adderall. Boba Jfet/Is. (very anti-meds) and I (pro) really went at it. Well, Boba hasn't posted since last Nov. (although he may be here with a new moniker) but I owe him a confession. He was right!

 

My blood pressure had been too high for a few months. I had been taking a small dosage of my ADD meds, 15mg, and only once every two days. On the night of the Grammy Awards, Feb. 9, I felt sick. But it wasn't only Sly Stone and Kelly Clarkson that were responsible! I also was feeling some chest pains. I had to cancel my annual Birdie Grammy Awards thread, so you know it was bad...

 

The very next day in the paper, I read about 25 deaths linked to these drugs. On the front page of the LA Times! http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-na-fda10feb10,1,5898363.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

 

I've quit taking those meds. Looks like I will just have to handle my wandering mind, my lack of executive brain function, just by myself. I don't mind, being aware of the problem is half the battle, and the other half is simply building up good habits. You know, actually waking up in the morning, have a schedule, iCal, an organized studio, clearing the papers off the desk, focusing on the tasks at hand, prioritizing, not spending too much time at KSS . . .

 

On the physical side, I've cut out coffee (but not tea) and cut way back on anything salty, both salt and caffeine contribute to high blood pressure, and I'm going on long walks again. Again, it could be worse. The chest pains are gone.

 

So there ya go, Boba/Is. or whoever ya are now.

[Fear My Potato]

I think there is no more powerful tool when you're band practice schedule is 2am to 7am in a room you aren't authorized to use and the only other pieces of your diet are booze and pot smoke, all the time wondering if the thousands of watts you're using to PRACTICE are going to draw a security guard in....

 

 

...yes, Ritalin has it's moments.

[Mike51]

Hey Birdie stay healthy! Glad to see you are feeling a bit better. Make sure you check out a doc if you can just to be safe. And yes, most of the music at the Grammy Awards can cause health problems.....

 

[Birdienumnum]

Originally posted by Mike51 Hey Birdie stay healthy! Glad to see you are feeling a bit better. Make sure you check out a doc if you can just to be safe. And yes, most of the music at the Grammy Awards can cause health problems.....

 

I've seen my doctor and I am checking my blood pressure regularly. But I swear as soon as Madonna hit the stage I was in trouble!

[Mike51]

Originally posted by Birdienumnum I've seen my doctor and I am checking my blood pressure regularly. But I swear as soon as Madonna hit the stage I was in trouble!

 

That bony skank is still around?

 

[Birdienumnum]

Originally posted by Mike51 That bony skank is still around?

 

Yar, I swear her pelvis was radiating a skank funk right through my television set. I got violently ill.

[purveyor2]

good for you Birdie.

just develop good habits like Leonard in Memento and you'll be fine.

Keep track of that BP - while the meds are likely the cause, in lots of folks, the BP just starts to creep up one day without explanation.

 

Doc C

[Birdienumnum]

Thank you.

[Pawnz]

Hi Birdienumnum,

 

I see a fair amount of clients with ADHD in my private practice. I have also been teaching Junior-level psychology classes at a nearby university for the past eight years, and consequently, I have access to the latest research. I am of the opinion that the optimal treatment for ADHD parallels the strategy utilized for many other disorders in the medical arena: 1. Addressing the organic/biological basis for the disorder; and 2. Behavior modification interventions.

 

I

[jester69]

Well, for you not taking meds is an option.

 

For me, my ADD got so bad that I was a danger behind the wheel. I could never remeber if I had checked to change lanes or not, and no matter how careful I was I would change lanes into someone at least once a week. Luckily they all had good reflexes.

 

Without medicine, I can barely remain employed. With medicine, I can be the highest rated employee in the department.

 

yes, minor ADD can be handled with behavioral tactics. Major add, being biochemical in nature, requires medicine to have any chance at overcoming it and living a normal life.

 

take care,

 

Jester

[O.K. Johnson]

Well, Birdie, I'm back on mt Adderall after being off any meds for about 7 years. (My doc moved and finally got a new one). We did some experimenting with various meds before settling on this one. Seemed to work the best. He aded a little Zoloft for late afternoon to take some of the edge off.

 

While I couldn't tell how the stuff was working, people around me could notice a difference. I noticed the difference when I went off the meds completely. That's when I missed them. Focus just wasn't the same. Self medication by coffee and Coca-Cola just didn't do it.

 

My routine will be to stop the medication during the summer time (when my work slows down). Let the body purge it self and start back up around October.

 

I am also on a BP medication but like the good doctor said, age related. Back on the exercise routine, also. All plays a factor.

 

When it was determined I needed some chemical help, the doc asked me some questions. He asked if I had ever done any drugs in high school, to which I answered "no" (truthfully). He asked, "you mean you never used any speed or uppers?" I replied "No." He then said, "Gee, that's too bad. You probably would have been a lot nicer to be around." He might have a future as a comedian. I thought about smacking him.

 

Anyway, good luck and follow the doc's advice. I don't know how long you were on the meds, but sometimes it takes a little while to adjust.

 

-OKJ

[Magpel]

Question for PAWNZ (and ayone else): My eight year old son has been varioulsy diagnosed as ADD, Aspergers, Non-verbal learning disability, PDD, etc., all anecdotally, mostly for purposes of classifications and accomodations at school. He doesn't fit any clinical profile very well. He's a pretty normal kid mostly. Spacey and emotionally volatile, definitely delayed in visual-spatial and acute motor learning but whip smart verbally and socially functional.

 

The only bio test he's had has been an eeg aimed at ruling out seizures. Seizures were ruled out.

 

"The profession," or at least the quandrants I have now visited, throw diagnoses around very very lightly, and throw adderall around even more casually, it seems. So I believe what you say about neurological evicence of organic bases of these problems (or at least of ADD), but why then are SPECT and related procedures so rarely prescribed? Is it purely a cost issue?

 

Can SPECT differentiate among syndromes or merely describe brain activity, leaving diagnosis and treatment to the soft arts of syndrome-naming and treatment guideline? Arts, BTW, which are clearly not above political/pharmaceutical influence...

 

edit: I realize that my post smacks of a bit of anti-pharma/big pusher sentiment, which is not inconsistent with the way I feel, but I want to set my priorities straight: mostly I want to know what my family might stand to gain by getting a SPECT or other type of brain scan done.

[Pawnz]

 

Originally posted by Magpel ....but why then are SPECT and related procedures so rarely prescribed? Is it purely a cost issue?

Maybe not "purely" a cost issue, but perhaps mostly a cost issue. That is, most insurance companies (i.e., legalized mafia) will not pay for a SPECT scan.

 

I have consulted on many cases similar to your son. Has he ever participated in a comprehensive neuropsychological evaluation? Not a psychological evaluation......a neuropsychological evaluation. It is often the case where there is "overlapping variance" among symptoms, and a neuropsychological evaluation may assist in disentangling these factors. For example, attentional problems often run with autism spectrum disorder.....so is it ADD (which is often harder to diagnose than ADHD) or Asperger syndrome....or both? Certainly, a SPECT scan would contribute incremental utility toward arriving at a valid diagnosis, but until then I would recommend a comprehensive neuropsychological evaluation. The good news is that while your son is still young, he is probably at a stage of brain development where a reliable diagnosis can be rendered. Another positive factor is that your son appears to be of at least average intelligence, per your report. Just as the extent to which biochemical factors may set the "upper limit" to the effectiveness of compensatory behavioral modification interventions for ADHD cases, your son's general intelligence may set the upper limit to his overall adjustment to Autism spectrum disorder.

 

Closing comment: Autism spectrum disorders are a difficult disabilities to get a handle on, so please keep in mind that evaluation is not an

[Magpel]

PAWNZ, thanks.

 

Yes, the boy had a complete neuropsychological evluation, transpiring over weeks and weeks and paid for in Yu-Gi Oh cards...

 

That evaluation yielded a diagnosis of nonverbal learning disability.

 

A brief consulation with a leading (truly--this cat was on the team that discovered a mental retardation gene) neurologist yielded the Aspie diagnosis (the dude also diagnosed ME as an Aspie on the spot, which, of course, I was quick to embrace, saying, "well that explains a lot... ")

 

And on and on.

 

BTW, the good, hard bit to come from the neurpsych evaluation was that there is a marked, a dramtic gap between the boy's verbal processing (upper echelon) and his visual-spatial processing (very low).

[ShakaCthulu]

Originally posted by Birdienumnum On the physical side, I've cut out coffee (but not tea) and cut way back on anything salty, both salt and caffeine contribute to high blood pressure, and I'm going on long walks again. Again, it could be worse. The chest pains are gone. So there ya go, Boba/Is. or whoever ya are now.

 

Howday Patanar

 

You should bookmark this site: http://www.amenclinic.com/

 

They seemed to have helped my uncle alot with this. They even have diet recommendations that may be able to help.

 

Best of luck

[Fear My Potato]

 

Originally posted by Pawnz Hi Birdienumnum,   I see a fair amount of clients with ADHD in my private practice. I have also been teaching Junior-level psychology classes at a nearby university for the past eight years, and consequently, I have access to the latest research. I am of the opinion that the optimal treatment for ADHD parallels the strategy utilized for many other disorders in the medical arena: 1. Addressing the organic/biological basis for the disorder; and 2. Behavior modification interventions.   I

[Magpel]

 

Originally posted by Fear My Potato Hmmm, I seem to enjoy this place a lot more when I stick to on-topic and/or pure pointless banter...

 

 

Well, I don't want to interefere with your enjoyment of this place by any means,

 

but your post bit my ass right where it is vulnerable...my achille's ass as it were.

 

We've managed to keep the drugs at bay, but the diagnosis, the differentiation, has come down on my boy in a big way,and here's where your experience sings to me. It is one of the few points on which my wife and are in occasional diagreement: whether we teach my son the names of what he is or not. And I think our disagreement actually helps us maintain some balance in this.

 

 

I tend toward the "not,"but I must also must concede he's discovered the difference between himself and other kids quite on his own, with or without "Aspie Like You and Me" picture books from England.

 

I bristle whenever he's diagnosed, especially since the coding seems so arbitrary sometimes. Am I to believe that asperbergs prevalence is really surpassing that of ADHD or OCD,or whatever,or am I to go with my gut suspicion that "disease" prevalence rates in this area actually measure little more the flux of focus within the profession and the syndrome-of-the-moment syndrome (SOMS) .

 

f*ck I dunno. Difficult stuff all around, but I've enjoyed reading the experience of adults who wrastle this. I wil be pleased if my boy winds up as a creatively and intellctually engaged as you guys.

[Trillian]

Hi Birdie,

 

It sounds like you may now be getting a healthy skepticism for all these meds they seem to prescribe like candy these days.

 

I have (self-diagnosed) some mild ADD and OCD myself. Music is the one thing I could always always concentrate on intensely but most other things I have to make myself focus.

 

It is true that acknowledging the situation is very helpful in itself.

 

Also, diet can have a much greater effect on 'mental health' than most people realise.

 

Anyway, be careful (it seems like you are now anyway), too many of these drugs make it on the market and get widely prescribed only to end up having terrible side-effects.

 

I always go back to the mode of thinking that there must be something wrong in general with the concept of having to be medicated to be 'normal'. 100 years ago there would not have been a drug for all these conditions, so have we as humans become defective? Is our modern environment driving us mad ? What has changed ? Certainly our environment is potentially more toxic and our diets have become riddled with chemicals and preservatives, excesses of sugar, salt, fat, decreases in vitamins and minerals etc.

 

So maybe we need to return the OS to it's 'default settings' and then see if we still need drugs.

 

'Anyway, just my two cents worth, I'm not a doctor or anything, 'just my observations and my own experience.

 

Take care,

sheryl

[elsongs]

Yeah I have a comment. I think that they're...

 

 

[Birdienumnum]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. I am deeply touched.

[MorePaul]

 

Originally posted by Trillian I have (self-diagnosed) some mild ADD and OCD myself.

 

 

that can be a problem in itself, having a system which may not the operaating problem self-evaluate (ep without diagnostic protocols ever really installed) is extremely dicey at best

[MartinHines]

 

Originally posted by Birdienumnum Looks like I will just have to handle my wandering mind, my lack of executive brain function, just by myself.

 

 

Speaking of mental conditions, how would you like to deal with this?

 

The wife of a friend of mine was hit in a car accident a few years ago and she permanently lost her short-term memory.

 

Typical example:

-- she goes to the grocery store & buys groceries

-- she goes to her car and opens the trunk

-- she sees a trunk full of groceries (she already bought them but didn't remember it)

 

She has to carry paper and pencil and write down everything she does!!!

[Trillian]

 

Originally posted by MorePaul that can be a problem in itself, having a system which may not the operaating problem self-evaluate (ep without diagnostic protocols ever really installed) is extremely dicey at best

 

 

 

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say. Here's the harsh reality - the psychiatric 'community' essentially creates a 'disorder' or 'disease' my labelling a certain set of symptoms. very very rarely do any of these conditions have an observable physical manifestation. So, you come in and you say "well I tend to go from one thing to another, get easily distracted, have trouble concentrating sometimes etc" and they say "right, 'sounds like ADD".

 

So most of these so-called 'disorders' are simply a series of behaviours and I can easily spot a trend of behaviours in my own life. However, I have no intention whatsoever of running out and getting a prescription for a drug.

 

In fact, I have a problem sometimes with the term 'disorder' as it automatically implies something 'wrong' when in fact these behaviours could simply be a personality type which is just as valid as others and has its merits, part of the 'diversity engine' of evolution.

 

Obviously if it is totally debilitating then one needs to seek advice, in my case it is not. But don't be fooled, there is far less real science in psychiatry than most are lead to beleive and alot more monitary influence from the big drug companies than anyone is willing to admit.

 

-sheryl

[Purity_Control]

 

He asked, "you mean you never used any speed or uppers?" I replied "No." He then said, "Gee, that's too bad. You probably would have been a lot nicer to be around."

 

 

I've got to admit i have some serious problems with concentration and focussing on things due to dissociative identity disorder. I find a bit of speed really calms me down and stills my mind and makes me feel a lot less paranoid and withdrawn. Probably what the guy said is very true for me, though the comedown can be a bit sh*te...

[Pawnz]

Originally posted by Fear My Potato I was diagnosed with ADD at a very young age, evaluated as I grew up, and for about ten years grew up on methylphenadate. I demonstrated all the characteristic behaviors of ADD as well clear up through around ninth grade (freshman year of high school) whenever off the meds, so the meds were effective treatment. At the time, I wanted to go military, so when I joined the JROTC program I took it more seriously than almost all of the others in it. Additionally, my doctor recommended if I wished to puruse military service and/or aviation, I should go off the medication as soon as possible...so I did, I just stopped taking the Ritalin (20mg 6-8hr sustained release tablets, taken only on weekday mornings, with a 5mg ritalin at night for homework). I recall no withdrawl issues or even noticing a difference really at that point. Through the discipline put upon me, and my desire for that discipline (in a martial arts sort of way), I'm convinced the behavior modification was taken care of. But it happened without the chemical aid. Obviously psychotropic stimulants do not cure ADD, so how can this be accounted for? It was a rough first year as I was flayed into shape discipline-wise, but after that first year I had no problems, eventually being promoted to the rank of Cadet Captain and being a Company Commander. No small task. I was in the National Honors Society, was receiving letters from John's Hopkins, etc... By the same token, I also strongly urge parents to consider behavioral modification before chemical treatment, even if it seems rough. Having your child diagnosed with piles of phsyciatric disorders so they are eligible for treatment may seem less stressful to you and less rough on the child, but it is a short-term solution that is damaging in the long term. Remember how I wanted to be a pilot? I was accepted into one of America's top flight schools before I went in to a flight medical examiner for my Class A flight physical. I was honest on the medical history forms, and was denied airman status because ADD/ADHD is a diagnosed psychological disorder I never had formally undiagnosed. I fought with the head FAA flight surgeon from spring of 2004 through the end of that summer when I was granted temporary airman status for six months. What nobody bothered to tell me before I spent $20k on a semester at flight school was that it takes several months alone and thousands of dollars to clinically undiagnose ADD. I had to see a clinical psychiatrist who performed a battery of grueling mental tests on me for hours upon hours, then was told I still had to see a clinical psychologist to discuss lifestyle, family history, etc. It would costs thousands of additional dollars, would've taken a while to do, and then with the FAA red tape would've taken years before I had airman status again. All this time I maintained above average grades at the flight school and was one of the top pilots in the program. So when it seems like your child is having difficulty in kindergarden, I strongly urge you parents out there to do EVERYTHING possible to avoid formal diagnosis and chemical treatment...it can bite your child in the ass very hard down the road in ways you can't even imagine. That whole deal is still biting me in the ass mentally, even though I've long given up my dream of flying I had since a child when my dad took me to see the Blue Angels. Now look at me, I'm practically a raving psychotic who's hell bent on doing something to society before he dies...ask yourselves...is that what you really want of your children? Do we want a whole world of Fear My Potatoes? Hmmm, I seem to enjoy this place a lot more when I stick to on-topic and/or pure pointless banter...

Fear My Potato,

 

Your point is well-taken. No responsible individual wants to medicate their children or themselves if they do not have to. I largely tend to adopt a