Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hey I know this is probably an insult--a guitarist for about 30 years starting out on keys........need advice for start-up......midi/synth workstation or not. Am playing in band on the week-ends....looking to add keys into some songs.......would like split/or doulble sounds?? Please educate me.THANKS TO ALL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pgunders Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 What sort of music does your band play? How much are you willing to spend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 21, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 about 1,000 to 1,350.00 playing some new stuff and classic rock..who, nugent reo, styx...etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazzosapien Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 If you ask me, in that price range, I would go with Korg TR Workstation. Its only $999. Best Jazzosapien www.onebluemonkey.com/jazzosapien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pgunders Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 The usual suspects would be the Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, and Roland Fantom series, all of which you'd be looking at getting used. I'm pretty much computer-based, so maybe someone else here can comment on these boards who knows them better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted February 23, 2006 Members Share Posted February 23, 2006 if you're playing this live you may get more bang for your buck by focusing on boards without sampling, sequencing ... the difference between boards costing $700 and less and $1,300 and less oftentimes has to do more with extras like the aformentioned seq. and sampling. At the bottom end ... the Roland Juno-D and the upcoming Korg X-50 would satisfy at the low end if you can tolerate the keybeds ... The TR somebody mentioned is the same as the X-50 but about $300 more; a used Juno-D, which sounds surprisingly good if you can get past the bogus name, and I'm sure you can, it can probably be found for under $500. Another great choice is the Alesis Micron at under $400 ... HUGE sound ... don't be fooled by the looks ... it's cute but it's REALLY powerful ... it's got as many features and sounds as good if not better than synths cost 3x as much ... it's synthesis power is really deep and flexible ... and despite not having many surface controls, its very easy to edit patches, set up splits, layers, patterns, really anything ... What I would reccommend, perhaps, is getting a Juno-D and a Micron, which would give you a hugely flexible arsenal of sounds (Juno-D: organs, strings, painos, organics; Micron: all the great classic synth sounds, deep basses, great pads, cutting leads and the ability to layer them, slplit them into great "setups" as Alesis calles them; Combis on Korgs, performances on Roland, etc.) This way, you're getting not only MORE sounds but DIFFERENT sounds ... although you may think the three octave Micron doesn't have enough keys, it's really plenty, and with the 61-note Juno-D, you can always play it from the D, as well ... Two boards, still saving money, more options and way better sounds than if you went strictly, say, with a TR or if you're considering the TR, then you should consider the Juno-G, which adds the sampling and sequencing back in ... If you have more questions ... feel free to elaborate ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Hey------Thanks I really appreciate it. I want to play layered sounds, I just was not sure wich way to go..was even ready to buy an Alesis 8hd workstation.....but now I am going to take a hard close look at your suggestion............THANKS!!!! CURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Hey, don't write off the Fusion ... it's a very interesting synth ... it got slammed at first because the preset sounds were a bit rushed, but apparently Alesis is releasing better stuff for free ... It also features three types of synthesis (sample playback (like the Juno-D), Virtual Analog (like the Micron) and physical modeling like ... well, maybe a softsynth ... a hard drive included for fast retrieval and practically unlimited storage ... 8 track audio recording which is a very nice feature in a workstation NOW ... and Alesis is an interesting AMERICAN synth company (but how American is anything, anymore? sigh.) I'd consider one, but it's extremely redundant with what I already have (and I love my rig and have finally achieved a state of equilibrium with my hardware setup) ... my biggest problem with the Fusion -- besides the somewhat weak soundset (just didn't sound very convincing but that's pretty understandable when it's at GC) -- is the way it looks. Cheap, and way too sleek. (I didn't know keyboards needed to be aerodynamic -- does it save on gas?). And it FEELS cheap too. The knobs and dials are made of an incredibly cheap and light chromey plastic. Was there something wrong with the ION's knobs?) Sure, it's ALOT of synth for the price. But even the Micron -- save for the keybed -- seems solid and is pleasing to the eye. Can't say the same for the Fusion, and I may be wrong here, but an instrument should inspire the ears, hands AND the eyes. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 See I need a set-up/rig and have no idea what the @#@ I am doing.....Playing soongs like teenage wasteland, november rain, cars, cheap trick, REO, and some Styx.I do not know if this possible, but I was hoping a could record/layer?? 2-4 different sounds on top of each other so I could play 2-3 keyboard parts at the same time....I do not mean to be stupid..but is this squensing??? I know music/music theroy 30 years of guitar playing, but real uneducated, when it comes to MIDI/Sequenching...ETC:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gdh Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 the Alesis Ion my fit your needs for your required aounds as well. On their website listen to the vintage mp3 http://alesis.com/products/Ion/Demos/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Well, then. If you want to play along with audio tracks from the keyboard ... then the Fusion will work just fine. While I think this is a cutting edge board that might not quite be ready for prime time, personally I went with a Fantom X7, and still would if looking for a workstation with all the stuff. IMO, it has the best sounds, overall, and the interface and color screen really make it all easy and fun once you understand the basics. It costs more more, but then, the Fusion will do everything the Fantom can, and then some. As synth and a worstation, the Fusion is very good, as an instrument, less so. Is the Fantom perfect? No. But it's a unique synth workstation that can pretty much do it all. The Juno-G is a close relative and shares much of the Fantom at a $999 price tag. the one thing you should know about the Fantom/Juno-G is that loading your backing tracks will probably take 10 minutes or more depending on how long your set is. I think one of the Fantom biggest problems is its slow load times. Granted, in reality, I don't think this causes a huge problem -- unless of course you lose power -- and everything gets thrown from memory. Then what? The Fusion may have a better solution since it's hard drive based. I'm not gigging at the moment -- working on my material -- but this was one of my bigger misconceptions about the Fantom. Slow load/save/sample manipulation times times. Usually not a problem; sometimes is when the file is big (like 30 secs or more). I have a laptop as well, and I'm not sure as to whether I'll use the Fantom or that for my backing tracks. (Although, idually there would be more players and no backing tracks; multiple boards, yes, but everything live. But hey, whatever works! If you're looking to buy now, though, the Fusion and the Fantom X would be available while the Juno-G starts shipping in April. I personally don't think the Korg TR is a flagship instrument, and I would not buy one as my first major synth. The Fusion, yes. Juno-G, probably maybe. Fantom X, definately! (Though I wonder when Roland's going to announce a successor. I mean, it's great. But could it be better? Yeah, I think so.) Just so you know the Ion is the Micron with LOTS of knobs. I would have loved to have gotten one, but the arps SUCK on it while they improved that feature dramatically on the Micron where I feel it's better than the one on the Fantom, which is darn good. Also it's got a little pattern generator that you'll like when you start playing around with it. The Ion's knobs are great for programming sounds -- but I think the knobs don't mean as much in a live setting. The MICRON has two sliders and three knobs which can be configured to any parameter just about. How many things can you really tweak during a song if your fingers are playing notes with both? Hmmmm? Plus, it's tiny. Which I think is a BIG plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by joekissel@adelp Just so you know the Ion is the Micron with LOTS of knobs. I would have loved to have gotten one, but the arps SUCK on it while they improved that feature dramatically on the Micron where I feel it's better than the one on the Fantom, which is darn good. Also it's got a little pattern generator that you'll like when you start playing around with it. The Ion's knobs are great for programming sounds -- but I think the knobs don't mean as much in a live setting. The MICRON has two sliders and three knobs which can be configured to any parameter just about. How many things can you really tweak during a song if your fingers are playing notes with both? Hmmmm?Plus, it's tiny. Which I think is a BIG plus. So is does the Micron have the same sounds as the Ion - all those cool vintage sounds that are demoed in the "Ion Vintage Synths" section of the web site - http://alesis.com/products/Ion/Demos/ ...they sound great, very close to the original patches - for someone like me, not interested in programming but just looking for some extra classic sounds, that's awesome! And the Micron B-stock or Dent+Scratch is only a bit over 300 bucks: http://www.americanmusical.com/sort--s-alesis-micron.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 Originally posted by pgunders The usual suspects would be the Korg Triton, Yamaha Motif, and Roland Fantom series, all of which you'd be looking at getting used. Actually there are lower-end versions of all those synths which sell new in his price range...Fantom Xa rather than X6. MO6 rather than Motif ES6, TR rather than Triton Extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 24, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 OK>now I am getting the ideas down.......so where I live is the STICKS!!! nowhere to go and try any of these boards out!!!! Any final say ?? I think I have decided to go with (2) behinger KX1200 keyboard amps..and run a ALESIS6HD keyboard in stereo.I think this real work for a set-up.......remember I also have to play guitar, and sometimes both instruments at the same time!! The way I understand it there is a new version 1.20 for this board that really is an improvement......And guessing from what I learned..the hard drive makes it easy for loading and back-up.. Really Thank-FULL for the input:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 So is does the Micron have the same sounds as the Ion - all those cool vintage sounds that are demoed in the "Ion Vintage Synths" section of the web site - YES. The Micron can use ALL the Ion patches. I listened to the demos, too, and was pretty impressed, and inspired to do even more with my Micron (the way you edit it is just starting to click with me.) It's really an amazing little machine with a huge sound. Good luck on the Fusion! Be sure to post something about it when you've had the chance to spend some time with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gdh Posted February 24, 2006 Members Share Posted February 24, 2006 I would go with Yorkville amps over the the Beh's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 25, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 looked at yorkville amps.....cannot afford them at this time......guess the behringer amps are the only ones I can afford at this time....the only negative I heard about the behringers was that every once in a blue moon a fluke amp smokes/catches fire.......but the replacement was there and everything works out.......... THANKS I will give review when I get the fushion......and finally figure it out somewhat........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 25, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 I just wanted too say.......I shopped all over the internet for boards you all suggested....Korg Triton Workstation.....great sounds, but I am worried about all the add-ons you seem to need........Triton TR61.......again lots of add-ons worried about this..................Yamaha had a good sample MP3, but, not a whole lot of examples........When I looked at the Alesis fushion there was a lot on MP3 samples and a complete owners manual available..........I hope the samples are not a scam.but.......... they sounded pretty cool to me, but then I am a guitar freak....great ear, but I know nothing about synths/midi/layering/workstations.etc Anyway it seems with all the available info I think I will go with the Alesis Fushion......looking for a blemish8hd.....if not a new 6hd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harmonicat Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Forget about specs for awhile and listen: http://www.ke-musik.dk/Upload/HtmlArticles/Article1284/index.htm Scroll down to "....demoer mp3" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 25, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 OK I am downloading this file now......This board is not a workstation though.....so what does that mean ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members harmonicat Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Oh,I thought you were looking for something to play live with...You want a workstation also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarmaker6767 Posted February 25, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Hey maybe you can educate me....I am not sure what to get live board or workstation.............guitar player needs rig to play weekend jobs looking for board/boards that will let me layer/sequence tons of sounds on top of each other.....ie Styx, Who, Guns & roses.....that type of musical demand....just quite ignorant , because I am not familar with boards midi/sequencing/workstations etc.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members essGexx2000 Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Try to get confirmation on returns/trade-ins policies, in case your first choice or two drive you crazy...the interfaces to make layering, splitting, loading+saving+creating patches may differ greatly, and no well meaning opinions here can outweigh what you experience in the first few hours of real use. I think all the mentioned items should have online PDF manuals, so download, and read about the features you want. If the manual is a confusing mess, the interface might be to. Pick a store that has at least 2 or 3 models to demo. Travel and spend the night if you must...the extra cost will be recouped by not stressing into an early heart attack/divorce/breakup caused by a model that does not meet your needs. Spend some phonebill cash on finding the nearest store with choices in stock, another few bucks well spent. I went to buy a synth rack once, two very similar sounding models, but the interface of one was a mystery, while the other made perfect sense in comparison. And the dealers suggested model was -not- the one that made sense to me! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wetwareinterface Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 well for live stuff and layering you can go cheaper than a juno d and micron and get slightly better results. a yamaha s-30 (not the s-03) is a good cheap synth. has some excellent sounds and can be found used for under $400 sometimes. it has a built in expansion bay that accepts cards that not only expand the soundset but offers a different synth onboard as well. best setup would be the s-30 with the dx expansion board and a seperate cheap v.a. synth like the micron or novation nova tabletop (it has a really good vocoder so you could cover mr. roboto as well ) and has some amazing synth sounds. this gives you classic sounds from a dx-7 (the most distinctive sounding synth of the 80's, also it's the dx expansion card for the s-30 btw) tons of realistic instrument sounds like pianos and organs and strings and choir sounds. and also the v.a. gives you the "synth" stuff as well as the vocoder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted February 25, 2006 Members Share Posted February 25, 2006 Originally posted by wetwareinterface well for live stuff and layering you can go cheaper than a juno d and micron and get slightly better results. a yamaha s-30 (not the s-03) is a good cheap synth. has some excellent sounds and can be found used for under $400 sometimes. it has a built in expansion bay that accepts cards that not only expand the soundset but offers a different synth onboard as well. best setup would be the s-30 with the dx expansion board and a seperate cheap v.a. synth like the micron or novation nova tabletop (it has a really good vocoder so you could cover mr. roboto as well ) and has some amazing synth sounds. this gives you classic sounds from a dx-7 (the most distinctive sounding synth of the 80's, also it's the dx expansion card for the s-30 btw) tons of realistic instrument sounds like pianos and organs and strings and choir sounds. and also the v.a. gives you the "synth" stuff as well as the vocoder. wwi - "Sound advice" indeed... Haven't seen you much here on KSS for a while! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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