Members danatkorg Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by P321 But what do you mean by "unrelated"? Are you saying the AL-1 uses no part of the Legacy code whatsoever? Are you also saying it wasn't coded, at least in part, by Korg Japan and was entirely the work of the US team? All of audio and realtime modulation code in the current set of OASYS synths (HD-1, AL-1, CX-3, and STR-1) was done at here Korg R&D. An engineering group at Korg Inc. in Japan created the user interface for these synths, including cool widgets for the vector envelope, graphic displays of the filters, etc. This was a completely different group from the folks who developed the Legacy, however; Korg is a reasonably sized company, with many different engineering groups. The Korg R&D and Korg Inc. groups split up work on other aspects of the OASYS, as well. Originally posted by P321 Since Korg Japan already developed very good x86 oscillator code for the Legacy Collection many people would find it hard to believe that they did 100% new unrelated code (not least) for another x86 based synth (Oasys AL-1). Legacy was released in 2004; my earliest notes on the AL-1 (or those I was able to find just now) date to 2002. Originally posted by P321 Are you saying that didn't happen at all with oscillator or filter or fx code, and they contain absolutely 100% no code from Legacy? I'm trying to be specific, since this appears to be what you're implying? Yes, with one probable exception in the effects: my guess is that the OASYS Polysix Ensemble effect (part of the system, not part of the AL-1) is derived from the Legacy, or at least the research that went into the Legacy. Some of the effects were developed at Korg R&D; most, including the Polysix Ensemble, were developed at Korg Inc. in Japan. In re oscillators and filters, the two products were developed completely separately, and use very different underlying techniques. Legacy's MDE-X effects are derived from earlier Korg effects, and so are many of the OASYS effects - but each is a different branch from the original tree. Originally posted by P321 I don't use that question as a "slur" btw. I absolutely didn't take it that way. I'm happy to answer technical questions, and I can understand the confusion on this point. Best regards, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by Mook The poll should have a third option for those that couldn't give a {censored}! Those are the people that don't post in the thread (wait....I just received a phone call....they say it's for you......they say you don't qualify for that section.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Diametro Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 "This isn't a defense of Korg, or its pricing scheme at all. It's just continual bemusement that people are so insistent that this thing is so overpriced without even trying it. " I'm sure EVERYONE WANTS to try one ... but why do you think this synth is going to offer anything new? There isn't ANYTHING in the specs that's getting people excited? IS THERE? If there were innovateive FEATURES to discuss, that would be great. Lacking that, everybody's zeroing in on the "high" price and iffy design. Of course, some people may change their minds once it's out there. It's the nature of these forums to be a bit harsh. So be it. A big part of the reason, I think, these machines come out at the prices they do is so when you "get a great deal" on one, you feel terrific because you got such an expensive piece of equipment at a "reasonable" price. That's how people will feel in a year when the RADIAS new goes for $900. That's what they're worth, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G-bus Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 It seems that in discussion, nearly everyone feels it's overpriced, and only a very small number of people believe it's priced fairly. Yet, a whole 9 people have voted as such. Hmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danatkorg Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus It seems that in discussion, nearly everyone feels it's overpriced, and only a very small number of people believe it's priced fairly. Yet, a whole 9 people have voted as such. Hmmmm... But wait - there's more! Only about half a dozen people have posted to the thread feeling that it's overpriced, and yet *22* have voted that way! It must be a massive, bilateral conspiracy! That - or more people are voting than are posting messages. I'd go with the latter explanation, although it's admittedly less exciting. We should get Dan Brown on the case; he can uncover what's *really* going on... - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 Two korg radias threads about price?I'd already posted in the other thread Personally, i don't think the price is that high, i cannot know for sure how it will sound though, i don't expect it to sound crap, it certainly looks good.For myself, the pricing of keyboards mean little if you are going to really use the synthesiser to something like its full potential. I actually consider the oasys to be very reasonable when you take into account all it offers. It could be considered the ultimate workstation.There are cheaper ways of doing things, some excellent free softsynths if you already have a pc. I think some of the current bigger softsynths sound fantastic.The thing that bothers me about radias is that its specs are nothing new, like i said though, it looks good and if it sounds anything like it looks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 It seems that in discussion. Hmmmm... Hmmmm....For someone who stated you were "not interested in the Radias at any price", you sure seem active in the Radias threads, given your 32 posts and counting.Are you this active in other product threads that you are "not interested at any price" as well? And you wonder why I accuse you of being a Korg basher. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G-bus Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 What a strange thing to say!!! And please stop misquoting me. I said I wasn't interested in the Radias at any price it will be in the near future. I may be interested in it at blowout or used prices, when it will be priced more in accordance with what it is actually worth. Thank you for understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members droolmaster0 Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by Diametro "This isn't a defense of Korg, or its pricing scheme at all. It's just continual bemusement that people are so insistent that this thing is so overpriced without even trying it. " I'm sure EVERYONE WANTS to try one ... but why do you think this synth is going to offer anything new? There isn't ANYTHING in the specs that's getting people excited? IS THERE? Why are you shouting? Let's see. Does the Virus offer anything new? The Nord? Even the G2? As far as I can tell, the only recent hardware synth that really offered anything new was the Hartmann Neuron. Then I guess, also the Resonator Neuronium, but that's more like a creature from outer space, rather than a synth. But nothing remotely resembling traditional analog is new, unless you want to get into this particular implementation vs that, which is really stretching it.Given the fact that none of the synths offered up as price comparisons offer anything new, we really have to look at other areas. How much did it cost to develop the synth, how good does it sound, etc. In other contexts you here the following line repeatedly, "it's all about the sound". But that seems to become irrelevant when Korg price points are discussed."If there were innovateive FEATURES to discuss, that would be great. Lacking that, everybody's zeroing in on the "high" price and iffy design."Actually, it sounds like a very fun synth. The sequencer implementation sounds quite cool to me, as does the vocoder implementation. I am unimpressed with the paucity of mod routings. If I had to choose based on specs, and based on what I know of the Virus sound, and the Nord sound, I'd take my chance on the Radias. I'm really not expecting something really new at this price point. I mean, come on - it's primarily a va synth. Of course, some people may change their minds once it's out there. It's the nature of these forums to be a bit harsh. So be it. So, after all of this triumphant capitalization, you admit that the true test will be people's reactions when it's actually released, and you seem to be on the verge of admitting that the reactions here are premature. This has been precisely my point. A big part of the reason, I think, these machines come out at the prices they do is so when you "get a great deal" on one, you feel terrific because you got such an expensive piece of equipment at a "reasonable" price. That's how people will feel in a year when the RADIAS new goes for $900. That's what they're worth, if that. Well, I guess it seems to me that if it sounds really great, and the sequencer and vocoder features work as well as I hope they would, then I'd pay more than $900 for one. But then again, I'd never pay $1000 for a Virus, which is essentially the same machine as they released 10 years ago. Is the Virus way overpriced? Well, a lot of people don't think so. Why? Because they really like the Virus. And ultimately that's what it comes down to, not whether the machine features groundbreaking new technology. The Neuron listed for something like $4,000, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 And please stop misquoting me. Sorry. I tried to find the quote, but after 5 minutes of searching I gave up. Can you point me to the quote? Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 I may be interested in it at blowout or used prices, when it will be priced more in accordance with what it is actually worth. Given the product hasn't even been released yet and given Korg's historical pricing, I wouldn't expect to see "blowout" pricing for at least 4 years. It still seems strange to be so passionate about a product that you MAY BE INTERESTED IN 4 years in the future. There could be a lot of new products released over the next 4 years. Finally, IF YOU REALLY ARE just interested in the product itself and NOT interested in attacking or disparaging Korg, how do you explain the following? Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 Interesting.. why would UK claim one thing, and USA something else? That doesn't look like "product discussion" to me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 So, it's definitely 2 to 1 the Radias is overpriced. Now, just let me have the last word and everyone can chill: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G-bus Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Oh Martin, what a strange thing to say!!! Even if I am not interested in the product at the time being, as a meber of this community, I am interested in informing the rest of the community as to why it might be priced so highly. Hence all my references to Price Skimming as the proposed strategy. On the plus side, we certainly can't accuse Korg of predatory pricing. Note that this is not specific to the Radias, and that if Roland's "red" turns out to be priced so highly, I would do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Birdienumnum Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 Oh Martin, what a strange thing to say!!! I notice you did not respond to the last part of my post. Here it is again: Finally, IF YOU REALLY ARE just interested in the product itself and NOT interested in attacking or disparaging Korg, how do you explain the following? Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 Interesting.. why would UK claim one thing, and USA something else? That doesn't look like "product discussion" to me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G-bus Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Oh Martin, what a strange thing to say!!! Naturally, one would be interested when two divisions of the same company make two conflicting statements. Thank you for policing my comments though. I'd been looking for definitions as to what constitutes "product discussion" and what doesn't, and I do appreciate the concern. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G-bus Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 Have a good day. You have a wonderful day yourself!! P.S. -- Do you know where the "other Chris" (ChrisM250) lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members G-bus Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Who is Chris? My name is G-bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartinHines Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus/Jeebus/Chris100 Who is Chris? My name is G-bus. I don't think you want me to post your real name, do you?I was asking if you knew where "ChrisM250" lives. You surely must be aware of him, since you started the "p120dude" thread, of which he is the original subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flat earth Posted March 25, 2006 Members Share Posted March 25, 2006 Originally posted by G-bus Note that this is not specific to the Radias, and that if Roland's "red" turns out to be priced so highly, I would do the same. Just keeping the continuity of fairness But i think the 'Red' may be just a small guitar combo. All will be revealed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cruel_Hoax Posted March 26, 2006 Members Share Posted March 26, 2006 Wait, I thought Jeebus was Mike51! -Hoax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheRain Posted March 26, 2006 Members Share Posted March 26, 2006 Yup... Korg shoulda made a $1000 monophonic worble wobble synth. coulda shoulda... didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike51 Posted March 26, 2006 Members Share Posted March 26, 2006 Originally posted by Cruel Hoax Wait, I thought Jeebus was Mike51! -Hoax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 No. G-bus is Mike51. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Oh yeah. The RadiasCool synth that is priced high due to the R&D that should have been covered during the AL-1 design phase. I believe that since there has not been enough OASYS sales to cover it's R&D and make a huge profit the tree-branch products will have to be slightly higher to recoup. Also, a lot of us feel the Radias is over priced because Korg has never released a high end va before. Access, Novation and Waldorf set the price for high end va's where as Korg, Roland and Yamaha were always cheaper. Now that Korg has released a higher end va we are all sticker shocked. Plus they stuffed it with more features than a MS2000/EMX-1 so it only makes sense it would cost more. I feel $1200 to $1400 is a better street price. The funny thing is if/when they drop the price it will hit right there.PS. I voted "yes it shouldn't cost this much"And yes. The Radias will be mine in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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