most worthwhile analog fx?

[CardioGram]

(I think this should be ok in this forum cause im a synthesist and I want to ask this crowd)

 

I've got a couple of analog synths at this point and i'm definitely a fan of 'that' sound....

 

however i'm less experienced with analog effects.

 

on a budget of $600-700US, what kind of true-analog effects processors are worth getting... what types of effect benefit most from being analog as compared to digital? Something tells me it may be that phaser/flanger type sounds that are better served by analog, since they are usually my least favorite-sounding digital effects but are interesting in theory.

 

I've been looking at the Vermona phaser, and their spring reverb... also that moog delay looks tasty.

 

are there cheaper analog effects which could be considered must-haves; distortion pedals maybe?

 

btw I make some dancey and some psychedelic stuff, so effects that get pretty weird and 'out there' are good ...

[eminor9]

Dancey, Psychedelic ...

Some of my favourite effects

Roland RE201 Space Echo = tape delay.

Should be available in good shape for abt USD 400/500.

I use the poor man's version on the Line 6 DL4 though.

 

Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man

Analog Delay

Also modelled in the Line 6 DL4.

 

Eowave have a couple of analog units that seem interesting, especially the spacebug has been attracting me lately.

 

Electro-Harmonix Small Stone (phaser used by J-M Jarre on his first albums).

[Don Solaris]

Marshall Time Modulator - sickest thing in the universe. Almost impossible to get it. Bads: They tend to get broken and it is hard, sometimes impossible to repair the unit.

[Roald]

EHX Smallstone. Use on everything, it's heaven! I guess it can be replicated digitally, Line6 has some great stuff, but I have the original as it's not that expensive (and the line6 stuff is...). Also great: the early Roland/Boss chorus units. For monosynths, chorus and flanger work best, in my experience. Phaser is better on pads and strings, polysounds.

 

Somehow I don't really get the fascination with analog delays, that moog is incredibly expensive and a digital delay can also be programmed to lose hi freqs on the repeats (even to introduce tape wobbles!). When you produce a track the delays tend to get in the background very soon, so it's not really important what it sounds like anyway

[wetwareinterface]

second the smallstone

 

also of extreme use the electro harmonix warp factory (multi band filter or vocoder)

 

use a good quality overdrive pedal instead of distortion, gives a warmer and fuzzier effect compared to distortion.

 

and a good envelope follower / noise gate.

 

all else should be digital a.k.a. delay, reverb, pitch shifting etc...

[Don Solaris]

 

Originally posted by Roald and a digital delay can also be programmed to lose hi freqs on the repeats (even to introduce tape wobbles!).

 

Visit a friend who has Roland Space Echo, try it, tweak some of its knobs, then go home and program that. Don't forget to send a message once you complete this task year or two from now.

 

Bye!

[Roald]

would love to! I guess a space echo has a very specific character...never tried one...but in many applications that character will not be very important in the mix. When you hear it solo, it must be a wonderful sound, I'm sure.

 

However, with normal (non-tape) analog delays I'd say it's just outdated technology...

[Elhardt]

While I too usually think of phasing and flanging not sounding as satisfying on digital effects units as their analog conterparts, I wouldn't completely rule out digital versions of phasers/flangers when it comes to using Nord Micro Modular synth as an effects unit. The Nord Micro Modulars sell used dirt cheap and when it comes to flanging and phasing, it sounds better than any digital FX unit I own. You can patch up intense thru zero flanging easily, and that's something almost never available on analog FX (except one that I can't remember their name), with negative or positive feedback. And the phaser in the Nord is strong sounding and has far more options than any other digital phaser including negative resonance for a hollow phasing sound, selecting the number of stages and the spread/spacing of the peaks/notches.

 

But thats only the beginning, because you can hook up several phasers, or combinations of phasers and flangers, or patch up infinite up/down phasing/flanging, or combine them with sweeping filters, or inject a noise source into the sound for jet flanging/phasing, and the list is endless. It's a super phaser/flanger if there ever was one, and a good sounding one too.

 

-Elhardt

[Don Solaris]

 

Originally posted by Roald However, with normal (non-tape) analog delays I'd say it's just outdated technology...

 

Yeah, non tape "analog" delays are usually noisy crap. However we must exclude fully manual analog delays which are not just delays, but when you use very low delay values and big feedbacks, you get some of the sickest sounding flangers / choruses.

[Don Solaris]

 

Originally posted by Elhardt when it comes to using Nord Micro Modular synth as an effects unit.

 

Well, that unit is just a DSP. You got the same thing in the PC while running Reaktor for example. I tried some effects in Reaktor, they are interesting, but so digital sounding. Few months ago i played Korg Trident that has analog flanger. What a sound!!! I've spent 3 days trying to get that flanger in the Reaktor -> but all i was doing was timewaste. You just can't build that flanger in Reaktor. From that day i only buy analog flangers / choruses / phasers.

[Roald]

You just can't build that flanger in Reaktor

 

Elhardt can! I'm sure I recently started experimenting with the MicroMod as FX box, as i now have a mixdesk with inserts. Loads of fun programming all kinds of wacky effects for the Rhodes. The first thing I did was something like the Zvex seek wah. Check out Zvex by the way..they're great.

 

+1 on the analog delay for chorus/phase, nice for subtle "thickening without sickening"

[Umbra]

The analog emulations in COSM are quite good, there are a couple that are specifically analog emulations vs. digital emulations. I really don't see much of a point in buying real analog effects, quality digital effects are just as good or better.

[tombola]

I really like the sound of my Dynacord VRS23 - an old analog BBD delay line rack. Is definitely a bit noisy, but adds a fuzzy warmth to everything. They're pretty common on german eBay

[Malik]

 

Originally posted by Don Solaris Yeah, non tape "analog" delays are usually noisy crap. However we must exclude fully manual analog delays which are not just delays, but when you use very low delay values and big feedbacks, you get some of the sickest sounding flangers / choruses.

 

 

Untrue. I have a DOD 885R dual delay and I would dare anyone to find me a digital delay that comes close. I'd even pass up the Space Echo for this. I'm not sure exactly what magic occurs in the signal path, but with every repeat, my sound fades into a mellow, bassy artifact of what once was. Poetry in an ugly 1U rackmount from the 70's.

 

Of course, nothing can replace the digital delays on my ASR-10, but those are tools. This is an instrument.

 

You can probably pick one up on ebay for around 60 bucks, but they are rare. You may want to check out the Ibanez AD-202 or a Rockman Chorus/Echo. Word on the street is that they're the bees' sheez.

 

-m

[Don Solaris]

Thanks for info Malik. I will look for that efx.

[Elhardt]

 

Originally posted by Don Solaris Well, that unit is just a DSP. You got the same thing in the PC while running Reaktor for example. I tried some effects in Reaktor, they are interesting, but so digital sounding. Few months ago i played Korg Trident that has analog flanger. What a sound!!! I've spent 3 days trying to get that flanger in the Reaktor -> but all i was doing was timewaste. You just can't build that flanger in Reaktor.

 

 

Well, first of all, the Korg Trident is also digital. If you like that sound, no reason something else can't do it.

 

As for Reaktor vs Nord, I don't remember the delay times on the Reaktor delay. But on the Nord they are very short and can go down to zero. This gives me the intense thru zero type flanging heard in Tomita recordings. Afterall, a flanger is just a delayed signal mixed with itself and nothing too magical. The way you hook up feedback can make a difference too, whether you use feed forward or feed backward and whether you invert the feedback path. The only analog flangers that can some of these things is one that came out a few years ago (can't remember the name) and I think the old Eventide Instant Flanger. All other analog flangers seem very limited and good at nothing more than some up/down swirling effect ontop of your sound.

 

The other nice thing about the Nord, is that if you don't like the initial result, you can change it. You can prefilter the sound, or roughen it up with other Nord modules, post process it, add subtle noise or distortion, or do whatever it takes to get the sound you like. But if you're satisfied with an analog flanger stompbox then all this other stuff is overkill.

 

-Elhardt

[percyexpat]

Originally posted by Roald would love to! I guess a space echo has a very specific character...never tried one...but in many applications that character will not be very important in the mix. When you hear it solo, it must be a wonderful sound, I'm sure. However, with normal (non-tape) analog delays I'd say it's just outdated technology...

 

this would have you shot at dawn over on the effects forum!! not really but youd be hard pressed to find anyone who agreed. i think analog delays still have a place as no digital has managed yet to model their warm sound yet. also infinite feedback for spaceship taking off sounds cant be done effectively with many digital pedals as far as im aware. for synths analog delays might not be a good option because you should already have your warmth in the original signal. for guitars then i think often that analog warmth is welcome and the noise doesnt really notice on a guitar when its playing.

[Cruel_Hoax]

 

Originally posted by Elhardt Well, first of all, the Korg Trident is also digital. If you like that sound, no reason something else can't do it.

 

Please forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I believe that the Korg Trident MKII is a VCO synth (oscillators based on later Minimoog-style boards?) with SSM2044 for filters and SSM2056 for envelopes.

 

I do agree with you, on the need for controllability and pre-treatment, when needed (and that the need for "through-zero" operation is essential).

 

Cheers!

 

-Hoax

[WhinyLittleRunt]

I think he was thinking of the Triton.

[WhinyLittleRunt]

Oh, and I don't know about the rest of you guys but I love Electro Harmonix pedals. The downside is that they're noisy as all hell. I know this was mentioned earlier but I must make note that I used my Small Stone the other day on a Rhodes patch through my S03 and it hissed like a cassette tape. Just horrible. It sounds good on guitar but you can still get the noise and it can easily ruin your sound.

[CardioGram]

good tips guys, thanks.. plenty to consider. keep 'em coming if you wish .

 

my biggest problem is all the suggestions sound good; (indeed the only thing stopping me from getting a micromodular is that i keep hoping they will make a g2 micromodular.)

 

im still wondering if anyone has specific comments about the studioelectronics phaser, the vermona ph-16 or the moog phaser.

 

and a tape delay question:: how easy is it to get replacement tape for that roland?

[aeon]

Originally posted by WhinyLittleRunt Oh, and I don't know about the rest of you guys but I love Electro Harmonix pedals. The downside is that they're noisy as all hell. I know this was mentioned earlier but I must make note that I used my Small Stone the other day on a Rhodes patch through my S03 and it hissed like a cassette tape. Just horrible. It sounds good on guitar but you can still get the noise and it can easily ruin your sound.

 

Said noise is nothing that a little Waves C1 can't fix.

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[StompBoxLover]

chorus - T.C.Electronics SCF (is it analog?) or Jaques Meistersinger http://www.ts808.com/

 

phase - MXR Phase 100/van Halens Signature Phaser/Phase 90 with R28 mod

 

tape echo - Dynacord Echocord Super can be found for little $$$ on eBay; not nearly as much hype as the Roland

 

or try Danelectros Minis http://www.danelectro.com/mini1.htm cheap and fun

[Roald]

heard good things on the Meistersinger. I'm currently trying to snatch an ARION SC-1 stereo chorus as it's said to be really nice, deep and warbly. Has anyone tried one?

 

warning on the MXR Phase90...the new version tends to overdrive very soon. Sometimes it sounds nice but it started to annoy me after a while....

[Don Solaris]

Originally posted by Elhardt Well, first of all, the Korg Trident is also digital.

Heh, no way Trident is digital. It is analog synth with analog flanger section - one of the best sounding flangers i've ever heard - can do wildest stuff.