Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted February 16, 2006 Members Share Posted February 16, 2006 My mind is playing games with me... G7add6 (G7/6 or G13) G7add9 (G7/9) but if it has an added 6th and 9th... G7add6/9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted February 16, 2006 Members Share Posted February 16, 2006 Yep, or G7add9/13 too. I COULD be written either way in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members red|dragon Posted February 16, 2006 Members Share Posted February 16, 2006 use the 9th and 11th, and then the 13th on dom chords. 6th is the same thing as 13th4th is the same thing as the 11th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poparad Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Slave_New_Wurld My mind is playing games with me...G7add6 (G7/6 or G13)G7add9 (G7/9)but if it has an added 6th and 9th...G7add6/9? Here's the order of chord tones: Root - 3rd - 5th - 7th - 9th - 11th - 13th As red|dragon pointed out, 4=11 and 6=13 In chord symbols, the number to the right of the root note letter name implies that all the lower numbers are present. For example, in a G9 chord, it is implied that all the notes below the 9th (everything to the left of 9 in the list above) is present. (Root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th) For G11, everything below and including the 11th is present. (R 3 5 7 9 11) The same applies for 13th, although it is common practice to exclude the 11th in voicings as it sounds too dissonant in most types of voicings. Now, if not every note is present, then we get into 'add' chord. For example, take this: G B D A (R 3 5 9). It's a G triad with a 9th, but no 7th, so it's a Gadd9 chord. Likewise: G B D E F (R 3 5 6 7, or R 3 5 13 7). All the notes of G7 are present (R 3 4 7) plus a 6th, so it's G7add6 or G7add13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted February 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Poparad Here's the order of chord tones:Root - 3rd - 5th - 7th - 9th - 11th - 13thAs red|dragon pointed out, 4=11 and 6=13In chord symbols, the number to the right of the root note letter name implies that all the lower numbers are present.For example, in a G9 chord, it is implied that all the notes below the 9th (everything to the left of 9 in the list above) is present. (Root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th)For G11, everything below and including the 11th is present. (R 3 5 7 9 11)The same applies for 13th, although it is common practice to exclude the 11th in voicings as it sounds too dissonant in most types of voicings.Now, if not every note is present, then we get into 'add' chord. For example, take this: G B D A (R 3 5 9). It's a G triad with a 9th, but no 7th, so it's a Gadd9 chord.Likewise: G B D E F (R 3 5 6 7, or R 3 5 13 7). All the notes of G7 are present (R 3 4 7) plus a 6th, so it's G7add6 or G7add13. This "rule" has cleared up all the confusion I had with labelling chords, thankyou for such a good explanation - I sincerely hope you teach this stuff professionally! Thanks to you all. One thing however, with powerchords we usualyl just write G5 (or equiv.) but obviously there is no 3rd in a powerchord so shouldn't it technically be Gadd5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Knottyhed Posted February 17, 2006 Members Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Poparad Here's the order of chord tones: Root - 3rd - 5th - 7th - 9th - 11th - 13th As red|dragon pointed out, 4=11 and 6=13 In chord symbols, the number to the right of the root note letter name implies that all the lower numbers are present. For example, in a G9 chord, it is implied that all the notes below the 9th (everything to the left of 9 in the list above) is present. (Root, 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th) For G11, everything below and including the 11th is present. (R 3 5 7 9 11) The same applies for 13th, although it is common practice to exclude the 11th in voicings as it sounds too dissonant in most types of voicings. Now, if not every note is present, then we get into 'add' chord. For example, take this: G B D A (R 3 5 9). It's a G triad with a 9th, but no 7th, so it's a Gadd9 chord. Likewise: G B D E F (R 3 5 6 7, or R 3 5 13 7). All the notes of G7 are present (R 3 4 7) plus a 6th, so it's G7add6 or G7add13. Good explaination - filled a few gaps in what little i know about chord theory I've heard before that the 11th is generally left out of 13th chords, but doesn't that, strictly speaking, mean that most 13th chords are actually 'add13th'... or if the convention is to *always* leave out the 11th, what if you wanted to include the 11th... how'd you notate that? I know it's nit picking, but it the one area of the explaination that doesn't make perfect sense to me. I'm guessing R 3 5 13 7, and R 3 5 11 13 7 would be notated as the same chord and '11' is entirely at the players discretion? Is the generally accepted theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poparad Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Slave_New_Wurld One thing however, with powerchords we usualyl just write G5 (or equiv.) but obviously there is no 3rd in a powerchord so shouldn't it technically be Gadd5? Since a chord is technically three or more notes, a power 'chord' is actually not a chord, being only two notes. (This is by really strict definition). Two notes form an interval, so G5 means "G with a 5th above it." The diad "G B" would technically be G3. However, this notation is never used except for open fifths (power chords). Also, there are actually a couple of chords that are kind of 'wrong' but have been used so frequently that it's the accepted way of doing it. A major triad with a 6th added should technicaly be "Gadd6," but it's common to just write "G6." Also, a sus2 chord (G A D) is commonly written as "G2." As you can see, this makes the interval system used above for power chords fairly messy if it were to be used for other intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poparad Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Knottyhed I've heard before that the 11th is generally left out of 13th chords, but doesn't that, strictly speaking, mean that most 13th chords are actually 'add13th'... or if the convention is to *always* leave out the 11th, what if you wanted to include the 11th... how'd you notate that? I know it's nit picking, but it the one area of the explaination that doesn't make perfect sense to me. I'm guessing R 3 5 13 7, and R 3 5 11 13 7 would be notated as the same chord and '11' is entirely at the players discretion? Is the generally accepted theory? Yes, technically that would be "add13," although for minor chords, the 11th sounds good and isn't left out of voicings. If you wanted a chord to specifically have the 11th in it, then labelling it as an 11th chord does the job, such as G11 or Gmaj11. Keep in mind that while this chord symbols can be very specific, it's also common practice (in jazz at least) to play any voicing that fits the general tonality, regardless of what specific one the chord symbol specifices. For example, if the chord symbol is G13, and dominant chord, such as G9 or G7, would work just as well. This is why in lead sheets chords are routinely written as just '7th' chords, leaving the added extensions up to the performer. The one common use for writting "G13" or "G9" though is when the melody is the 13th or the 9th of the chord. This makes it easier to sight read a chart and come up with a voicing to fit the melody as it removes a little bit of the thinking required to come up with the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted February 17, 2006 Members Share Posted February 17, 2006 If you want a great introduce to chord construction theory, click over to my web site. Follow the link to Intervals and Chord Construction. It's ground up approach but loaded with details and chord chorts, etc... After reading it you should be able answer these type of questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted February 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Poparad Two notes form an interval, so G5 means "G with a 5th above it." The diad "G B" would technically be G3. However, this notation is never used except for open fifths (power chords). Yeh, that's another one I've been nitpicking over because a lot of heavy metal uses diads of, for example, G3 without the 5th so the 3rd sounds much sharper but I was never sure whether G3 was consistant with the "rules". I've got into the habit where my ears almost need to hear the 6th or sharp 5th added to a 7th chord before it resolves into a typical major7 chord, but a lot of jazz websites note "common jazz progressions" without those inflections added which I've always wondered, but like you say, they are merely leaving it to the player for their own additions depending on the voicing they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Slave_New_Wurld Posted February 17, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by gennation If you want a great introduce to chord construction theory, click over to my web site. Follow the link to Intervals and Chord Construction. It's ground up approach but loaded with details and chord chorts, etc... After reading it you should be able answer these type of questions. Excellent lessons gennation, nice work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted February 17, 2006 Members Share Posted February 17, 2006 Originally posted by Slave_New_Wurld Excellent lessons gennation, nice work Thanks much. Hope they are of use. As a note...having the fuller chords in your progression does help spell out what scales you can use for sure...but having less notes on your chords can also open up more notes you can choose from. Leaving you freer in your note selection with less clashing. A book you might be interesting that discusses some great chord concepts is Chord Chemistry by Ted Greene. It's basically a bible of chord concepts. Check it out, it's cheap at at Amazon too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.