I'm stuck in the Pentatonics...I need to expand...

[mysterybat35]

Hi Everyone!

 

How are you all? I have been playin for quite some time now. I know a lot of chords and I have all the pentatonic scales down pack. But whenever I record all of my solos sound the same because I am just so use to using the Pentatonic scales... The reason for this is because I play a lot of Old man Blues and R&B Funk ...

 

Can anyone give me some good diagrams that show the finger placement for different scales? I want to learn scales that you hear Steve Vai play. You know his style of play. I am stuck playing the likes of Jimi Hendrix and Ernie Isley and even the occasional Stevie Ray Vaughan....(which is totally fine)

 

HOWEVER every now and then I like to give something different a try.

 

The more Scale diagrams I receive from you guys the better.. I need to learn as many as possible...

 

Thanks a million

 

Mysterybat35

 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[JoeyJoJo]

Modes for sure man,

http://www.ocmusic.com/guitmodes.htm

http://www.ocmusic.com/Modes.htm

[astring]

http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Fingerings-Guitarist-Jimmy-Guitar/dp/0786665076/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-6411281-8147037?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180503994&sr=8-2

[Virgman]

Learn the major scale next.

 

It's a platform you'll need to know.

 

If you are a rock/blues player you'll find you'll still be using your pentatonic/blues scale most of the time.

[bdemon]

 

Learn the major scale next. It's a platform you'll need to know. If you are a rock/blues player you'll find you'll still be using your pentatonic/blues scale most of the time.

 

 

Ya, so true. If you start busting out modes in blues solos it'll likely sound a bit jazzy or fusion-ish--which could be cool!

 

Might also want to consider copping some new licks from your guitar heroes. I like to occasionally learn, say, one or two measures of a Clapton/Vai/Metallica/Vaughan solo. Usually gains me a couple new riffs.

[bgator]

One thing Clapton does (and lost of other players too), which works well, is to switch between the major and minor pentatonics in a solo. If you're not doing this yet, it might open things up for you a little bit.

 

If you know all the minor pentatonic patterns you also already know all the major pentatonic patterns, so have at it.

[DRPool]

Here's a great lesson on moving around in the major/minor pentatonic scales.

 

Very easy to understand.

 

http://www.universal-total-guitar-plus-center.com/pentatonic-major.html

[StratAttackJack]

Do a search for diatonic scales. Scales and modes are really the same thing when you study the diatonic tones deeply enough.

 

The modes are as such:

1. Ionian (your basic major scale)

2. Dorian (minor scale w/ a b7 and a b3)

3. Phrygian (minor scale w/ b7, b3, b6, b2)

4. Lydian (major scale w/ a #4)

5. Mixolydian (major scale w/ a b7)

6. Aeolian (minor scale w/ b7, b3, b6)

7. Locian (diminished b7, b3, b6, b2, b5)

 

Notice how each minor scale has a b7 and a b3. The addition of a b6 turns your basic minor 'Dorian' scale into Aeolian (my fave minor mode), and by going a step further and adding the b2 you get Phrygian.

 

As you better understand these concepts your "bag of tricks" will start to fill up quickly. I like to start my solos off slow...sticking to chord tones and pentatonics...and as I start to build I gradually start grabbing notes from the diatonic scales for extra flavor...by the end I'm doing whatever comes out naturally (usually a strong combo of pentatonics, diatonics, and chord tones) for a climatic type finish.

[Virgman]

You can use your pentatonic patterns as a base and add the two remaining major scale notes to complete the major scale.

 

Pentatonic = 5 notes from major scale

 

Pentatonic + 2 = 7 note major scale

 

Learn the major scale well before you launch off in to other scales like melodic minor or whatever. That could take you a year or more.

 

Melodic minor and harmonic minor are really just the major scale with a few alterations.

 

Here's a free program you can download that will lay out the scale patterns for you horizontally. It's very handy:

 

http://www.fusionsite.co.uk/software/fretnav.htm

[blumonk]

Simple Answer to your problem:

 

Stop playing the pentatonics and learn the major scale.

[Terje]

Another answer, sort of going half-way, is to use pentatonics in different ways. I'm guessing but you're probably mainly using for instance an A minor pentatonic over a typical blues progression in A, right?

 

There are basically two pentatonic scales used in our western music. The major and the minor (sometimes called altered, depending on the context). In C the notes would be C D E G A for the major and C D Eb G A for the minor.

 

One more that is fun to use is the dominant pentatonic scale, in C that would be C D E G Bb.

 

You can get lots of interesting sounds from these three scales. Here are a few suggestions (in one key, transpose on your own) :

 

Dm7 - C major, F major, D minor, G major

G7 (and G7 alt.) - G dominant, G major, D minor, Dd major, Ab minor (the last tow are altered)

Cmaj7 - C major, D minor, G major, D major (lydian sounding)

[FlyingZ]

 

I have been playin for quite some time now.

 

 

For blues I like to combine the Major and Minor Pentatonic like the Dorian but split up in major and minor groupings. The F# can also give it a diminished feel.

 

Ultra basic concept:

 

---8---5--------------------5---7---5--

-----------8---5----5-h-7--------------

----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------

----------------------------------------

[fabian s]

You can use your pentatonic shapes as a framework and add notes to play major and minor scales.

 

C major / A minor pentatonic / diatonic scale shapes:

 

[StratAttackJack]

Nice diagram fibian! It goes hand in hand with what I was saying.

 

The first picture shows mixolydian mode.

The second shows Aeolian mode.

The third shows Locrian mode (when you start on the B) AND Ionian mode when you start on the C.

The fourth shows Dorian mode.

The fifth shows Phrygian (starting on the E) AND Lydian (starting on the F).

 

Get a feel for all these modes by using the ROOT note as a "pedal tone" while moving through the rest of the notes in the scale.

 

Run through Ionian mode in the key of A, then run through Lydian mode ALSO in the key of A and compare the sonic differences. Do this will all of them.

Good luck!

[Dubb]

 

The first picture shows mixolydian mode. The second shows Aeolian mode. The third shows Locrian mode (when you start on the B) AND Ionian mode when you start on the C. The fourth shows Dorian mode. The fifth shows Phrygian (starting on the E) AND Lydian (starting on the F).

Not exactly... they just show the same group of notes in a different area of the neck. Any mode can be played in any of these patterns. (And I have no idea why the B's and F's are highlighted.)

 

What Jack meant to say is that for the given C major scale:

[StratAttackJack]

Not exactly... they just show the same group of notes in a different area of the neck. Any mode can be played in any of these patterns. (And I have no idea why the B's and F's are highlighted.)

 

What Jack meant to say is that for the given C major scale:

 

Yeah, dude....what I was trying too say is to use those as starting points those are the modes. Those 5 scales are the exact starting points for the modes I mentioned, irregardless of what the notes were.

 

Thats why I mentioned to play them all in the same key.

[fabian s]

 

(And I have no idea why the B's and F's are highlighted.)

 

 

The black notes are pentatonic, add the white notes for major (or minor or modal depending on your tone centre).

 

The idea is to show the relationship between the major scale and the major pentatonic scale. The C major pentatonic scale is a C major scale with B and F left out. Note that these notes form semitones, so there are no semitones in a pentatonic scale.

 

I thought since mysterybat35 already knew his pentatonic shapes this might be a useful next step.

[Dubb]

The black notes are pentatonic, add the white notes for major

D'oh... shoulda caught onto that .

[Norio]

I've got a blog on guitar modes. Check it out and let me know what you think!

[Norio]

PS - Get into the habit of practising scales up and down the strings so you get the intervals memorised. Also a nice way of creating sexy melodies

[Jeremy3]

A good way to move away from the pentatonics while still playing something similar, is to learn jazz-blues. Start with the simplest form - Normal blues progression with a mixolydian scale (Over A7 playing a mixolydian, D7 play D Mixolydian, etc.). This will also teach you how to switch scales within a progression, unlike in the blues where you often just play the minor pentatonic/blues scale throughout the whole progression.

[Norio]

Any reason why Mixolydian and not Dorian? It sounds odd to me to use Mixolydian for blues.

[Sauntman]

 

Any reason why Mixolydian and not Dorian? It sounds odd to me to use Mixolydian for blues.

 

 

Mixolydian is sometimes called the "dominant mode" as it goes well over dominant seventh chords. Chords common in blues progressions.

[HumanFuseBen]

here's an awesome little mixolydian/major 7 arpeggio i like to mix in with minor pentatonic... i love this one!

--------------------------------------12---16--------------------------

----------------------------12----15-----------------------------------

--------------------13--14---------------------------------------------

------------12--14-----------------------------------------------------

----11--14-------------------------------------------------------------

-12-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Phulcrum]

 

You can use your pentatonic shapes as a framework and add notes to play major and minor scales. C major / A minor pentatonic / diatonic scale shapes:

 

 

I just wanted to thank fabian s for posting that pentatonic > modal diagram. In the past week my playing has improved exponentially. I had the pentatonics down all over the fretboard, but I was stuck in that rut. I had a general understanding of modes and how they work but applying them just seemed overwhelming. By adding those key notes within the scales I already knew I am instantly able to start hearing my solos move through the chord changes. They still sound very "majorish" but I am guessing that that will improve with time and practice. Anyway, thanks again.