Aug and dim chords

[Knottyhed]

Been playing around with this

 

http://www.musictheory.net/trainers/html/id92_en.html

 

I've found that the only chord types I seem to draw a complete blank on is the diminished and augmented triads. I've generally got a pretty good ear, but I seriously can't seem to reliably hear the difference, despite them theoretically being about as different as 2 chords could be. If I select just those two chord types I can only score around 65%. Other chord types more like 95%.

 

What's going on? Is this a common problem or is it just me>?!

[SlaveNewWorld0]

As you know, Augs are major chords with a sharp 5th and Dims are minor chords with a flat 5th.

 

I find it helps to deconstruct chords in stages - First focus on hearing the 3rd tone, in relation to the chord's root. Once you've established whether it's a major or minor 3rd, the tension caused by the flat or sharp 5th tone should jump out at you, communicating whether its diminished or augmented.

 

Establish the triad first, and deconstruct the stacked layers of the chord in your head.

 

Another way would be to hear the chord, and attempt to guage where it would "fit" in a typical chord progression. Obviously, augs have a "natural" place (VIaug - I) and so do dims (viidim - I), so I suppose the more you learn the conventions of using these chords in progressions, hearing the chords by themselves should trigger this response in your head...eventually.

[Jasco]

It took me longer to learn to identify augmented from diminished by ear than major from minor. Just keep listening and I'm sure you'll get better at it.

 

It also took me a while to learn how to use diminished and augmented chords in my playing and composing.

 

Both chords are symetrical. Both are dissonant. Both can function as a replacement for the V chord. Any note in either chord can be the root. Both chord types want to resolve to a major or minor chord a half step above their root (which can be any note in the chord). This makes them ideal for use as 'pivot' chords to modulate to different keys.

[Knottyhed]

That's the thing, I can hear a major/minor third a mile off in a maj or minor type chord... but I can't hear is in the context of a diminished or augmented triad it seems. Maybe it's just that I don't tend to listen to/or attempt to transcribe much music that contains these chords.

 

Seems to be I should hear the difference a mile off, as you say one is R-3-#5 and one is R-b3-b5. They're very different - more different than a major/minor, or a minor/sus, or a maj7/dom7, but I'm surprised to find that whilst I can reliably tell the difference between those chords I can't seem to do the same for aug/dim.

[Knottyhed]

 

It took me longer to learn to identify augmented from diminished by ear than major from minor. Just keep listening and I'm sure you'll get better at it.

 

 

Well I'm glad it's not just me being guitarded. Same answer as everything else I guess - keep plugging away at it until it clicks.

[gennation]

The reason you have a hard time is distinguishing between stack M3 Intervals and stacked m3 Intervals.

 

With a Major triad the M3 between the root and M3 is more prominent/pleasing than the m3 between the M3 and 5.

 

With a Minor triad the m3 between the root and m3 is less prominent/pleasing than the M3 between the m3 and 5.

 

Now with an augmented chord you have TWO M3 stacks, so its a little deceiving because the first one still stand out and the second is still less prominent...even though it too is a M3 Interval. So you can THINK "Major" without considering too much more.

 

With the diminished it's the same thing but with two m3 Intervals stacked. The first m3 Intervals less prominence is still more prominent than the second m3 Interval. So, you can THINK "Minor" without considering too much more.

 

These are things that can be "illusions" when listening to the chord with no other reference, like without them being in context to a progression.

 

I'll have to try the little test, but don't run into problems hearing/identifying them in progressions.

[pewing33ny]

your ear doesn't want to hear that dissonant 5th. a large part of this has to do with overtone series and the way sound waves and harmonics grow exponentially. it would take hours to explain but essentially in every tone you hear there are more tones in there. guess what the most audible tone after the fundamental note is...it's the 5th. so scientifically it also works out like that.

 

i love symmetrical chords though, you can do so much with them. especially on diminished 7th chords where you can exploit that tritone and come up with some really wacky stuff. i purchased the slonimsky book a couple months ago and it helps me create a more unique sound.

 

it's good that you're looking into music theory though. a lot of people try and dismiss it and make the excuse that they are playing with "feeling". granted there are some guys like wes, jimi, and evh who didn't need theory but those guys are one in a million.