Trying to get my head round using Mixolydian scales in Blues tunes

[Mr Songwriter]

OK, as anyone that has heard my entry in the GJ Blues challenge will know, I have totally mastered the use of minor pentatonics (just kidding!) and I now want to learn to use other scales in the context of 12 bar blues etc. I have read and heard that apart from the major pentatonic scale, the other scale that gets used a lot in Blues guitar is the Mixolydian and that it works best over Dominant seventh chords, but having spent a while messing about using this scale over my own backing tracks, I am having trouble making it sound 'bluesy' and I wouldn't mind getting a few pointers from people, specifically with regards to which notes I should be lingering on, emphasising etc, or even just Youtubes and the like with good examples of it being applied/Mixolydian licks etc. I'd like to know more about the thinking behind the way you use it. Thanks.

[Virgman]

Something you can try is to break the 12-bar blues down into 3 parts.

 

1st part = 1st 4 bars

 

2nd part = 5 thru 8

 

3rd part = 9 thru 12

 

For example A-blues: A7-D7-E7 chords.

 

Use three mixo scales - A-mixo, D-mixo, E-mixo where appropriate.

 

The three scales are conveniently positioned close together on the fretboard.

 

Use your ear and follow the changes.

 

The mixolydian scale sounds good over a jazz blues (it's the major scale at the 5th note of the scale). Not quite the sound of the blues scale since it isn't the blues scale. It has different notes!

 

Try it.

[Judge Groovyman]

Something you can try is to break the 12-bar blues down into 3 parts. 1st part = 1st 4 bars 2nd part = 5 thru 8 3rd part = 9 thru 12 For example A-blues: A7-D7-E7 chords. Use three mixo scales - A-mixo, D-mixo, E-mixo where appropriate. The three scales are conveniently positioned close together on the fretboard. Use your ear and follow the changes. The mixolydian scale sounds good over a jazz blues (it's the major scale at the 5th note of the scale). Not quite the sound of the blues scale since it isn't the blues scale. It has different notes! Try it.

 

 

Thats a great tip ... I'm gonna try that too!

[gennation]

Read the Introduction here: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/AdvPent/AvdPentTOC.htm

 

Then proceed to over 50 examples of using the all the scales you can use in the 12-bar Blues.

 

Playing a Mixolydian from each Root is a great way to start but still leaves a lot out. But, once you start combining the Minor Pent with the Mixo scale, that's where stuff really starts happening.

 

What's taught in that lesson is ONE SCALE that contains the Major Pent, Min Pent, Blues, Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian Dominant, and more.

 

When you mention mastering the Minor Pent I assume you mean you know all the patterns, because to start mastering the 12-bar Blues you need many more notes that the 5 note scale. These other notes are what allows people to play "over the music" and not "over a scale".

 

Check that lesson out and READ the Introduction!

[Virgman]

Read the Introduction here: http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/AdvPent/AvdPentTOC.htm Then proceed to over 50 examples of using the all the scales you can use in the 12-bar Blues. Playing a Mixolydian from each Root is a great way to start but still leaves a lot out. But, once you start combining the Minor Pent with the Mixo scale, that's where stuff really starts happening. What's taught in that lesson is ONE SCALE that contains the Major Pent, Min Pent, Blues, Dorian, Mixolydian, Lydian Dominant, and more. When you mention mastering the Minor Pent I assume you mean you know all the patterns, because to start mastering the 12-bar Blues you need many more notes that the 5 note scale. These other notes are what allows people to play "over the music" and not "over a scale". Check that lesson out and READ the Introduction!

Great stuff, Mike.

[gennation]

Great stuff, Mike.

Thanks Virg!

[Mr Songwriter]

Something you can try is to break the 12-bar blues down into 3 parts. 1st part = 1st 4 bars 2nd part = 5 thru 8 3rd part = 9 thru 12 For example A-blues: A7-D7-E7 chords. Use three mixo scales - A-mixo, D-mixo, E-mixo where appropriate.

 

 

Thanks, I didn't know it worked like that, I thought it was like the blues scale where you tend to play the same scale over the I, IV and the V chords.

 

Gennation: I was kidding about mastering the minor pentatonic, I'm a long way off doing that, I will check your lessons out.

[Jasco]

I'd suggest simplifying at first.

Instead of using the full mixolydian scale over each chord, use the four note dominant 7 arpeggio over each chord. Then gradually learn to add in the 9th. Then add the 6th. Lastly, learn to add the 11th, although I wouldn't use that one a whole lot. At that point you'll be playing "mixolydian" over each chord, but you'll be thinking about it differently than just playing a scale.

And hopefully, that method will help you focus on the stronger notes (chord tones) and lead to lines that might sound more melodic and less like you are just running a scale.

[Mr Songwriter]

I'd suggest simplifying at first. Instead of using the full mixolydian scale over each chord, use the four note dominant 7 arpeggio over each chord. Then gradually learn to add in the 9th. Then add the 6th. Lastly, learn to add the 11th, although I wouldn't use that one a whole lot. At that point you'll be playing "mixolydian" over each chord, but you'll be thinking about it differently than just playing a scale. And hopefully, that method will help you focus on the stronger notes (chord tones) and lead to lines that might sound more melodic and less like you are just running a scale.

 

 

Thanks, that's an interesting approach, I will give that a go.

[jonfinn]

Ahhh... cool stuff! Try this too:

 

||:A7/A7/A7/A7

D7/D7/A7/A7

E7/D7/A7/E7:||

 

Over A7 - use C#minor pentatonic w/b5 (C#, E, F#, G, B, C#):

 

-------------------------------9-12----

-------------------------8-12---------

-------------------9-11----------------

-------------9-11----------------------

-------9-10----------------------------

-9-12----------------------------------

 

Over D7 - Use Dminor pent w/ natural 3 (D, F#, G, A, C, D):

 

-----------------------------------10-14

-----------------------------10-13------

----------------------11-12-------------

---------------10-12--------------------

--------10-12---------------------------

-10-14----------------------------------

 

Over E7 - Play G#minor Pent w/b5 (G#, B, C#, D, F#, G#)

*note: this tabbed fingering starts on D (b5 of G#)*

 

------------------------------------10-14

-----------------------------12-14------

----------------------11-13-------------

---------------11-12--------------------

--------11-14---------------------------

-10-14----------------------------------

 

Tips:

 

-ALWAYS know where you are in the form. Know exactly what chord is being played at any moment.

 

-on the last two measures, drop whatever you're doing and play a cool turnaround. Doing that acknowledges a style, and is a good tool to be good at to help with phrasing.

 

-Spend more energy listening than playing. The more you listen, the more you'll realize how trustworthy your ears are. Properly used, they never let you down.

[gennation]

All the arps and everything are in that tutorial. It'll get you beyond the pattern ideas too, as it focuses on treating the chords as well as the changes. You'll be able to tell right off the bat that a linear pattern is only a reference, but there's much more to turning it into anything musical. Make sure you read that Introduction.

[green_dolphin]

If you don't already know the major scales, then learn them because if you know your major scales then you already know your mixolydian scales.

As for playing blues though, few people think "mixolydian scale" when playing the blues. It's really more pentatonic with the added blue note.

What blues artist are you trying to mimic?

[Mr Songwriter]

As for playing blues though, few people think "mixolydian scale" when playing the blues. It's really more pentatonic with the added blue note. What blues artist are you trying to mimic?

 

 

Well I've been listening to some Albert King and quite a bit of Clapton, also some JJ Cale (yes I know he's not strictly a blues player) A lot of the time, once I've figured out the key and whereabouts they are on the neck I can work out what they're doing from the Blues Scale, but sometimes they use notes outside it. I've also seen quite a few people on instructional videos talk about how a lot of Blues players mix in some mixolydian-based stuff with the blues scale and I wanted to know a bit more about the theory behind it and how and when to apply it.

 

One good thing I heard about soloing is that it often helps to 'sing' what you want to play in your head. Maybe I've listened to too much pentatonic-based blues stuff and I need to listen to (and learn to recognise) more blues music that uses Mixolydian scales to get a better understanding of the harmony.

[mosiddiqi]

..to add my penny's worth...the key notes in the mixolydian scale that are different to the blues scale are the maj2nd, maj3rd and maj6th. So, in the key of A, the blues scale is A, C, D, Eb, E G...when you play your licks, if you add any of the above different notes, B, C# or F#, you will have a mixolydian sound, particularly the Maj3 (C#), when played next to min3.

Try playing the following notes over an A7 chord to get the flavour:
|--------------5---5-7b9==9-|------|
|----------5h7---7----------|-8----|
|------5h6------------------|------|
|--5h7----------------------|------|
|---------------------------|------|
|---------------------------|------|

Apologies for the rubbish diagram, but hopefully it makes sense!

[Mr Songwriter]

..to add my penny's worth...the key notes in the mixolydian scale that are different to the blues scale are the maj2nd, maj3rd and maj6th. So, in the key of A, the blues scale is A, C, D, Eb, E G...when you play your licks, if you add any of the above different notes, B, C# or F#, you will have a mixolydian sound, particularly the Maj3 (C#), when played next to min3. Try playing the following notes over an A7 chord to get the flavour: |--------------5---5-7b9==9-|------| |----------5h7---7----------|-8----| |------5h6------------------|------| |--5h7----------------------|------| |---------------------------|------| |---------------------------|------| Apologies for the rubbish diagram, but hopefully it makes sense!

 

 

Yes that sounds pretty interesting, the only note that sounded a bit odd to me was the G at the end (maybe because it came directly after the C#) plus as you say, you're playing the Blues Scale with extra notes from the Mixolydian scale added, which sounds a lot better than what I was trying which was *switching between* the Blues scale and the Mixolydian.

[mosiddiqi]

Yes that sounds pretty interesting, the only note that sounded a bit odd to me was the G at the end (maybe because it came directly after the C#) plus as you say, you're playing the Blues Scale with extra notes from the Mixolydian scale added, which sounds a lot better than what I was trying which was *switching between* the Blues scale and the Mixolydian.

...you could end on an A if you prefer, just bend that last G up and add vibrato to it. I suggest you have a look at Mike Dodges postings and his site which covers this really well. The approach is to look at ONE scale, a kind of super scale which is a mix of pentatonic(major/minor), blues, dorian, mixolydian. Good luck!

[bobthemerciful]

Tips: -ALWAYS know where you are in the form. Know exactly what chord is being played at any moment. -on the last two measures, drop whatever you're doing and play a cool turnaround. Doing that acknowledges a style, and is a good tool to be good at to help with phrasing. - Spend more energy listening than playing. The more you listen, the more you'll realize how trustworthy your ears are. Properly used, they never let you down .

The single most important part of being a musician IMHO is in bold.
Spot on :thu: