Members benzem Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Way to bring the love, JEREMY! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted September 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Come on guys, geez let's calm this down. Although I find that comment very immature and offensive. Mostly due the the snide manner in which it was delivered. Quite troll-ish. However, it is a fair point. That is actually a large part of the reason for this thread. Many players are able to get famous and rich with little understanding of theory. Now the crux of this is - is fame and fortune the only currency you are seeking? Sure I would love to have more money (who wouldnt) but i am not so sure about the fame thing.... seems awful invasive if you ask me. They all seem pretty miserable. Many players here have the raw ability to be known... but they lack the right time, right place OR are unwilling to do what it takes to do all that. It is a LOT of dedication to sit on a bus, single, no children, away from everybody you know for months or years at a time. People don't just get fame, they work their tails off to get there. They sacrifice. Some are PLACED there... usually because they look good. None of this has ANYTHING to do with technical abilities. It is from this depth of commitment AND having access to other monstrous players, that collaborations and great bands/recordings are born. Can you honestly say that Mo, or Jon(s), or 3shift, or Danny or one of the other MANY excellent players are here. Couldn't rip a "classic" solo if they were in a studio along side Vinnie Colliuta, John Paul Jones, Lyle Mayes (insert cats of choice)? You gotta be THERE to get that opp. NOW - a player of the caliber of Eddie! That is a different story. He is a game changer... not your average guitarist. This cat was the real deal - master. Changed how a generation of players play. Many players I can understand that they did it without theory. Sure. BUT EDDIE! No way. I never believed it when I heard people say it... so this thread was about my "ah ha!!" moment verifying my suspicions. So let's cut all the BS ragging each other and re-focus. If ya can't be civil, get off my thread. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 We need a break.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Any chance of the tab.......? Was it modal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 If ya can't be civil, get off my thread. : ) Hey hey You you.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Gerry Monroe.................totally phenomenal! RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 @ Benzem........ Just giving Gerry another blast..................addictive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The 615 Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Come on guys, geez let's calm this down.Although I find that comment very immature and offensive. Mostly due the the snide manner in which it was delivered. Quite troll-ish.However, it is a fair point. That is actually a large part of the reason for this thread. Many players are able to get famous and rich with little understanding of theory. Now the crux of this is - is fame and fortune the only currency you are seeking? Sure I would love to have more money (who wouldnt) but i am not so sure about the fame thing.... seems awful invasive if you ask me. They all seem pretty miserable.Many players here have the raw ability to be known... but they lack the right time, right place OR are unwilling to do what it takes to do all that. It is a LOT of dedication to sit on a bus, single, no children, away from everybody you know for months or years at a time. People don't just get fame, they work their tails off to get there. They sacrifice. Some are PLACED there... usually because they look good. None of this has ANYTHING to do with technical abilities. It is from this depth of commitment AND having access to other monstrous players, that collaborations and great bands/recordings are born.Can you honestly say that Mo, or Jon(s), or 3shift, or Danny or one of the other MANY excellent players are here. Couldn't rip a "classic" solo if they were in a studio along side Vinnie Colliuta, John Paul Jones, Lyle Mayes (insert cats of choice)? You gotta be THERE to get that opp.NOW - a player of the caliber of Eddie! That is a different story. He is a game changer... not your average guitarist. This cat was the real deal - master. Changed how a generation of players play. Many players I can understand that they did it without theory. Sure. BUT EDDIE! No way. I never believed it when I heard people say it... so this thread was about my "ah ha!!" moment verifying my suspicions.So let's cut all the BS ragging each other and re-focus. If ya can't be civil, get off my thread. : ) Sorry for derailing your thread man. I was trying to point out that MANY of the guys who have musical degrees and know everything about theory come off as arrogant IMHO. Whether this is intentional or not I dont care. They act like they are better musicians than the guy like EVH who doesnt have a degree from berklee. I dont have an issue with the theory. I wished I knew more. I have alot of respect for those who have taken the time to go to school. Some things like natural talent and a great ear trump knowledge. There are many great songs out there by those who have never been in a musical classroom. Again sorry for the derail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 @ Benzem........Just giving Gerry another blast..................addictive! I'll check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Sorry for derailing your thread man. I was trying to point out that MANY of the guys who have musical degrees and know everything about theory come off as arrogant IMHO. Whether this is intentional or not I dont care. They act like they are better musicians than the guy like EVH who doesnt have a degree from berklee. I dont have an issue with the theory. I wished I knew more. I have alot of respect for those who have taken the time to go to school. Some things like natural talent and a great ear trump knowledge. There are many great songs out there by those who have never been in a musical classroom. Again sorry for the derail. You didn't derail BTW. It was intended to incite.AND, I could not agree with you more. And appreciate your non confrontational, yet spot on post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'll start...what's with the inadvertant harmonics?And the timing is off on the beginning of the lead!This guy def does not know..........(well...I do, but it didn't help me here.)BTW, aren't puppies cute? Okay....1m 42secs in......... Dig those Spentatonics........ After Gerry, it's hard to say much more at the moment......... I have a working sewing machine. It has a "thread suck" feature......like reverse engineering............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 You didn't derail BTW. It was intended to incite. AND, I could not agree with you more. And appreciate your non confrontational, yet spot on post. Diplomacy. Learning all the time, me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Okay....1m 42secs in......... Dig those Spentatonics........ After Gerry, it's hard to say much more at the moment......... I have a working sewing machine. It has a "thread suck" feature......like reverse engineering............ Very....painful...to hear. But thanks for your honesty.I am human. I bleed.Apparent dislike is apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 Very....painful...to hear. But thanks for your honesty. I am human. I bleed. Apparent dislike is apparent. (No....it's just humour.........got to get the thread back on an even keel). Lovely jacket! I wish I had one just......or nearly a little bit.......like it. Pain thee not! I adore puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 9, 2011 Members Share Posted September 9, 2011 I'm off to bed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 NOW - a player of the caliber of Eddie! That is a different story. He is a game changer... not your average guitarist. This cat was the real deal - master. Changed how a generation of players play. Many players I can understand that they did it without theory. Sure. BUT EDDIE! No way. I never believed it when I heard people say it... so this thread was about my "ah ha!!" moment verifying my suspicions. Yeah. I can imagine him getting there without a real deep knowledge of the theory at play though. It happens. There are some that can pick up a LOT by listening and watching. The Holdsworth-ish licks he started playing at some point easily could have been nicked that way. It brings to mind a story about Tommy Bolin. Word is that the work he did on the Billy Cobham Spectrum album was facillitated on the spot by Jan Hammer and BC. He couldn't read and didn't know theory, not on their level anyway. They literally just showed him the places to go. In a way it's almost like he's a totally different player from the riffer that he usually was too, and it's kick ass! Anyway, whether the knowledge comes from a book or somebody just plain shows you where to put your fingers, knowing more and learning something is good. And I struggle to think of a solitary soul that was truly enabled in a postive way because they knew less. Spies and politicians, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 Okay....1m 42secs in.........Dig those Spentatonics........After Gerry, it's hard to say much more at the moment.........I have a working sewing machine. It has a "thread suck" feature......like reverse engineering............ That's really rude. Let's see some of your playing. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 Good nite all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members benzem Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 Jacket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted September 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 Sorry for derailing your thread man. I was trying to point out that MANY of the guys who have musical degrees and know everything about theory come off as arrogant IMHO. Whether this is intentional or not I dont care. They act like they are better musicians than the guy like EVH who doesnt have a degree from berklee. I dont have an issue with the theory. I wished I knew more. I have alot of respect for those who have taken the time to go to school. Some things like natural talent and a great ear trump knowledge. There are many great songs out there by those who have never been in a musical classroom. Again sorry for the derail. Firstly, no problem man. Apology accepted. To be crystal clear here, the point of this discussion was not that "knowing nothing" means you aren't and cant be a great player. Of course you can! Many have and do. My point was more pretending you don't know. I think this is lame. I have also heard many many many many lazy players, who can't be bothered to get informed. Then go out into the world expounding on the merits of remaining musically illiterate. That it in some way makes you BETTER. This is so stupid I can barely bring myself to type it! Listen, I have dealt with a great many pompous ass intellect players who can't play worth $hit - so I hear what you mean. I get your anger towards that. Perhaps some of it is misplaced anger based on your own insecurities of your lack of knowing some of this stuff. I've been there too. USUALLY there are 2 sides to that coin. They are not necessarily arrogant, just as you are not necessarily ignorant. For the record I never went to any music school... I took a handful of lessons in the first 20 years of playing. Outside of obtaining my Grade 2 theory level. Hardly a miraculous achievement. KrankN inferred that learning inhibits creativity - this is the contentious point. This remains a philosophical difference of opinion. I am cool he believes that, even though I don't. As 3shift pointed out theory is not a system of rules as has been implied. It doesn't create or inhibit anything. It is organized observations of things that work. Honestly for me it is a time saving device... it makes it easy and quick to share my ideas with collaborators. The thing is, a player who plays in one band for years and years really has no immediate need for it... BUT if you play with many different projects it makes life MUCH easier. To me it is like this. If you know something - don't be ashamed to admit you know it. If you don't like not knowing something -learn it. Be who you are and be proud enough to stand behind your decisions. If you just don't want to do things because you are too lazy... then don't be afraid to admit that. For anyone who cares though... my understanding theory has helped me in more ways than I can express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re "Spentatonics"...... That's really rude. Let's see some of your playing. Lol. The word just popped into my head, so I thought I'd give it to the world. I find it impossible to negatively criticize any guitarist. I was attached to a circle of musicians way back, when I couldn't play anything, and I hated the way guitarists would go to a local gig and later verbally rip someone's playing to bits. I remain in awe of anyone that has the guts to stand up in front of a crowd and hit the strings, even if what they play is not very good. In humour.......most things go. You're a good sport, dude! Re my "Zzzz" post - my new technique: Bore 'em into tranquility. Like a warning....."If you don't all calm down, I'll fill the forum with this garbage" . I know we have moderators to police the input, but I think members have the right to express a dissatisfaction with stuff they find irksome. Dodgy territory, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members polishpaul Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 Approaching 3,000 hits, Jeremy! A sometimes rocky road, but generally a good discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krank'N Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 "KrankN inferred that learning inhibits creativity -" Didnt say that . I did try to convey that I am against dogmatic slavery and allowing theorhetical constraints to close one's mind to potential. True self -expression must come from within. Birds sing,wolves bay at the moon and whales sing.They have their own methods and means of conveyance. Whales learn new songs from other pods and create variations on them. The question becomes whether musicians can also be authentic or just mimics. Also, the complexity of the subject isnt relative to its merit. Primitive chinese and druidic chants using pentatonic scales have survived the ages. When was the last time folks sat around a campfire and someone said"Lets sing some Schonberg!" ??? IMO twelve -tone music is the antithesis of self-expression for anyone but the composer ( and even a comp could do it better). BTW -Sorry if I offended casual readers with my remarks. Sometimes I get like a junkyard dog when my chain is yanked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted September 10, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 mmmm...... maybe you meant to say what you said above but here are your words: "Knowledge brings rules and restricts creativity" "As one gains mastery over a given subject one also accumulates "rules" or theory. Therefor a reduction in potential usually results." How does this not infer a restriction in creativity? That is pretty much exactly what you said no? Look brother not wanting to start it all up again. We have all said our piece. I agree with much of what you are saying, and I love the earthy vibe of what you are getting at ... but these statements just do not line up with my own life experiences. Dat's it bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Krank'N Posted September 10, 2011 Members Share Posted September 10, 2011 LOL So thats where this started eh? An incomplete statement on my part ! I shouldve said "Knowledge brings rules which may restrict creativity". Rules do reduce potential IF they are strictly adhered to. Thinking back on the original EVH comment, perhaps part of the reason you were offended by his feigned ignorance is that its not authentic. Here is an iconic figure with a mixed message. One has to ask oneself then whether his playing also is more technique than self-expression. Then the listener may be angered upon becoming aware of the artistic fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.