Members Alex Pareja Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 I was wondering what other options I had for the turnaround in this tune. As of know I'm interpreting it as ii V7 alt in E melodic minor and a ii V7alt D melodic minor. For the ii I could play a locrian and then super locrian over the V. Or I could do a C melodic minor over the whole bar. Likewise Bb mel. min. for the next bar.Then there is the HW Dim over the V's from what I see. Are there other ways to interpret this for solo ideas? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted November 30, 2011 Members Share Posted November 30, 2011 I have a full tutorial on Footprints here: http://mikedodge.freeforums.org/footprints-some-forward-motion-concepts-t2.html For some forward motion, think of the chords (D9->Db9 from the Realbook Key of Cm) as: In 6/4, each note gets a quarter beat... D9 Ab7 Db9 G7 CmE----------------------|-----------------------|-----B------------------4---|--------------------3--|--4--G---------------5------|-----------------4-----|--5--D----4--7----6---------|-----3--6----5---------|-----A--5-------------------|--4--------------------|-----E----------------------|-----------------------|----- Ascending, this exploits the half step movement between the arps. Martino plays that turnaround with these chords (at least in a few passes). Base your lines on these chords... D9 D9 Db9 Db9 D9 Ab7 Db9 G7 F7b9 Em/M7b5 Ebaug G7#5E---------|-------------|-------------|--------B---7-----|----8--------|-----4-------|----4--G---8-----|----8--------|-----4-------|----4--D---7-----|----8--------|-----5-------|----3--A---8-----|----7--------|-----6-------|-------E---------|-------------|-------------|----3-- Check out that tutorial, it'll show you how to tune that whole tune into a movement instead scales per say. So it looks like this to create movement in your lines: 6/4 time ||: Cm7 | Cm7 | Cm7 | Cm7 C7 or C7aug or Gdim7 or G#aug | Fm7 | Fm7 G7 or G#dim7 or Gaug or Db7 | Cm7 | Cm7 | F7b9 Em/M7b5 | Ebaug G7#5 | Cm7 | Galt C#7 :|| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alex Pareja Posted December 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Ah I never saw the real book version but in the arrangement I have the turnaround I have been using is F#min11b5 B7#9#5 E7#9b5 A7#9#5 As far as the lines are you getting that from the HW dim scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 I listened to Shorter, Miles, etc, neither knew what to play there. Too early in the genre I guess. There was a guitarist or three that had some modern (70s) ideas about it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 This one's kinda cool. OZUlLDNqX28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 There was a guitarist or three that had some modern (70s) ideas about it though.Right, that's a different issue. Later players (even Shorter or Miles themselves) might come up with different, maybe "better" (matter of opinion) ideas in subsequent years, as the style develops. Doesn't mean the earlier players "didn't know" what to play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Ah I never saw the real book version but in the arrangement I have the turnaround I have been using is F#min11b5 B7#9#5 E7#9b5 A7#9#5As far as the lines are you getting that from the HW dim scale? I think the Realbook version just shows it as two chords, D9->Db9. I guess looking at it scale wise you could think of those lines as a diminished scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Seeing as Shorter wrote the tune, that seems a bizarre statement. He didn't know what to play on his own tune? Right, that's a different issue. Later players (even Shorter or Miles themselves) might come up with different, maybe "better" (matter of opinion) ideas in subsequent years, as the style develops. Doesn't mean the earlier players "didn't know" what to play! He wrote the melody. Not calling that out. He/they just blew funny on the turn in question. Boppers had the problem of cool rhythm, cool harmony, cool harmolody, cool virtuosity, etc... all from scratch on the fly no excuses. They often missed. I just think in those terms - subjective or what. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 This one's bad ass. Lots of clues to hang a solo on I think. cHf-KS7ITOo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonR Posted December 1, 2011 Members Share Posted December 1, 2011 Boppers had the problem of cool rhythm, cool harmony, cool harmolody, cool virtuosity, etc... all from scratch on the fly no excuses. They often missed. I just think in those terms - subjective or what. lol Sure . But if they made a serious mistake in recording they'd do a retake. They might well have let some small imperfection or fluffed note go through if everything else was cooking. Whatever we might think now, they thought it was fine then. And we have to appreciate that to understand the principles of that music (and then see how things have changed since then). Of course, maybe if he listened now to what he played on the original recording, he'd shake his head too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Pfft, concert pianists clam - unavoidable. It's the generic "mistakes" though - Those fuel evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JonnyPac Posted December 9, 2011 Members Share Posted December 9, 2011 But if they made a serious mistake in recording they'd do a retake. It is a fact that those sessions are LOADED with what we would call "mistakes" and very few retakes. I read the Oxford book it it by Keith Waters. You'd be very surprised! The bass does hit the roots indicated (not the D and Db "wrong" version floating around) but the rest is "negotiated" amongst the players. Thinking strict CST or chord-tone playing is not necessary with this kind of jazz. Wayne and the rest of the 2nd quintet thought outside the box on all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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