Lesson problems...and I'm ready to walk. What should I do?

[NewGuyonGuitar]

How many more classes are you expected to teach?

[3shiftgtr]

 

To my mind I've got three options (I'll poll these to make it easier). Which one do I choose? Or if you can think of something better, please tell me, as I'm fully prepared to walk away from this whole thing, because I'm sick of it.

 

 

The guys here have offered some great suggestions and ideas, but I'm sensing that you aren't getting what you need out of the answers. You're responses are at odds with the suggestions a wee bit. Not at what the suggestions suggest, but what they deliver. And I took a good look at your poll questions.

 

Then it hit me.

 

I have been teaching for so long that I forgot what it was like to sit dumbfounded at people's lack of well....anything. They SAY they want to play the damn guitar, they BUY the damn guitar, they SHOW UP for the damn lessons, BUT THEY DON'T DO A DAMN THING!

 

People: It's a piece of wood with strings. I doesn't play itself, and Slash has to wear a stupid hat to get people to listen to him. Unless you are a 5 year old Asian girl playing Bach, you are not special, so quit making excuses and get to work!!!!

 

....and still, STILL very few of them stick with it. And that used to PISS me off!!! I had in me an inherent desire to pass my passion on to them and get them as inspired as I was and help them get where they say they want to go. And STILL they fiddle {censored} around like this is a gahdang pottery class or a health club membership!!!! I come from a football and sports background, and I wanted to go all Bear Bryant "Junction Boys" on their asses!!!

 

Over time, I read and learned about educational psychology and spoke with MANY educators, I learned that THIS is the challenge of teaching. Pulling a student or students from one side to the other: from drudgery to inspiration, from apathy to attention. Just because WE LOVE the music so much we are willing to do what it takes, doesn't mean our experiences will cross over.

 

And it also means that humans are, well....human. They often say they want to do something until they actually have to do it. I dig woodworking. I would love to be a really good woodwright. But it takes time, money and dedication that I just don't have right now. So I must be content to watch PBS woodworking shows in amazement and marvel at a furniture builder friend of mine's work. Who BTW, has offered to teach me, but I have to decline because I will become THAT student who doesn't do the work cuz I don't have the time or money. I say I want to, but BECAUSE OF MY TEACHING EXPERIENCE, know that I can't. Without that experience, I'd probably take him up on it, fiddle fart around not do the work, and then he'd be pissed I wasted his time.

 

So the solution is not to blame them. Humans are humans. You can look to your own experience and see in yourself the things you see in your students. Put the responsibility on them to learn, but put the responsibility of their results on YOURSELF. LEARN HOW TO TEACH. Cuz that is really what teaching is all about in your situation: getting students to be inspired and motivated enough to LEARN. So you must go and educate yourself about teaching. There are TONS of material on tutoring, teaching, mentoring etc that will make you a better teacher.

 

You can't control a student, you can only change your methodology to get better results. While we can expect a level of performance from our students, their results can often be nonplus for us. You're job as a teacher is to find or create the button that gets them to be motivated and to learn. Doing it in corporate (classroom) is a challenge and there are many techniques that you can learn.

 

If this is too much to do for free, then state in the beginning that you are not a trained teacher, and you are doing this for free, and if they don't show up and do the work, you are OUTTA THERE. It is wholly appropriate, and no one would think less of you for doing so.

 

Hope this helps....I'm a helperer.

[PhilGould]

I'm just wondering if the problem isn't to do with my students but with me.

 

Firstly, on a note about teaching, I am trained in teaching,but not music. I'm an English as a Second Language tutor, not a music teacher, and this requires a very different set of skills.

 

I'd also add a more personal side to this issue too. As a musician I tend to be very music theory-orientated and I also tend towards very specialized and non-standard playing, such as my experiments with just temperament. Problem is that whilst I understand all of this brilliantly, I often struggle to teach it to others, especially where they aren't as technically able as I am.

[NewGuyonGuitar]

 

I'm just wondering if the problem isn't to do with my students but with me. Firstly, on a note about teaching, I am trained in teaching,but not music. I'm an English as a Second Language tutor, not a music teacher, and this requires a very different set of skills. I'd also add a more personal side to this issue too. As a musician I tend to be very music theory-orientated and I also tend towards very specialized and non-standard playing, such as my experiments with just temperament. Problem is that whilst I understand all of this brilliantly, I often struggle to teach it to others, especially where they aren't as technically able as I am.

 

 

Sounds like an epiphany. Now you have a clearer understanding of the problem. How do you reach back to the beginning and reconnect with the teensy tiny baby steps that all beginners go through.

 

I'm a novice guitar player. My suggestions would be:

 

Keep it really, really simple.

Play for them, engage them with the sounds the instrument can create.

Walk them through very basic things.

[PhilGould]

Sounds like an epiphany. Now you have a clearer understanding of the problem. How do you reach back to the beginning and reconnect with the teensy tiny baby steps that all beginners go through. I'm a novice guitar player. My suggestions would be: Keep it really, really simple. Play for them, engage them with the sounds the instrument can create. Walk them through very basic things.

 

 

This will likely be quite difficult for me as really I never had that beginners stage. My dad and other people I grew up with knew about music theory and playing, and so I just picked it up without thinking about it. Similarly when it came to that time when I played my own music, I just found myself being able to hold my own with fairly advanced musicians. although I'll admit I still had problems.

[JonR]

 

Put the responsibility on them to learn, but put the responsibility of their results on YOURSELF. LEARN HOW TO TEACH. Cuz that is really what teaching is all about in your situation: getting students to be inspired and motivated enough to LEARN.

Yes. But it depends how important it is that they learn - and to whom it's important. Who is interested in the results?

If the people employing you need to see results, then you need to make sure the students learn. But ah - in this case they're not "employing" him are they... (ie, not paying...)

If you want to feel some satisfaction in your work (and the lack of payment may make that more important), then you need to make sure the students learn (to make yourself feel better, that you're not wasting your (unpaid) time).

 

But if you're thinking solely about the students themselves - there is no need to make them learn, even if they are paying. (What they do with your teaching, how much attention they pay, how much they practice, is up to them.)

The world needs no more guitar players; there are probably way too many already. If your personality and style naturally inspires students, that's great, but I see no point in making an effort in that direction. They have to want to learn, without your input. I firmly believe it's not the teacher's responsiblity to make someone want to learn. Not unless there are external demands, such as for a school or college (who's paying you) to increase the number of passes or successful graduates. Unfortunately, inspiring (even nagging) the students may then be something you occasionally have to do.

 

Of course, the necessity of practice - of sufficient commitment - is something you must stress with students right at the beginning. That's the deal. They should never be under the impression that they're paying you to deliver an ability to them without them making much effort. They have to KNOW that it's their responsibility to learn. So if they're lazy, it's an informed choice, and they know they can only blame themselves.

 

Of course, that doesn't mean teaching is a totally passive act! It can't all come from them, with you as an impassive guru delivering pearls of wisdom for each question.

They don't know what they don't know. You have to deliver information. And you have to do it in a way that makes sense, and (crucially) is understandable at the student's level. (Eg, no good talking about how great the modes of melodic minor are when they don't even know what a scale is...)

You have to be constantly assessing your own output, according to how well you see it getting through. Ie, you assess their progress, then assess your teaching accordingly (and re-plan if necessary). That's your responsiblity. (If they're failing to get something despite plenty of practice and commitment, that's your fault.)

IOW, your teaching has to be efficient and appropriate. It doesn't have to be inspiring. (Good if it is, but it's not necessary.) They shouldn't need kicking. Kicking them is not your responsibility. They shouldn't expect that - which means it IS your responsiblity to tell them at the start that you won't be kicking them.

 

At the same time, it's important to be alert (especially in group lessons) to different personalities, different ways people absorb information. Some will be full of sparky questions all the time. Others will sit quietly, and you may think they're getting it all, but perhaps they're not (and are too shy or proud to ask). That's why you constantly have to check, and get them to play (or explain) things individually. And that can be hard with the shy ones, because you're making them expose themselves and possibly their mistakes. A bit of intuition helps there; if you can tell an individual hasn't quite got something, you can explain it again as a general point, without focussing on them.

 

These are all important teaching skills. But - to repeat - neither inspiring nor nagging students is part of them. (Though hopefully good teaching will both inspire and gently nag at the same time...)

[3shiftgtr]

 

Yes. But it depends how important it is that they learn - and to whom it's important. Who is interested in the results? If the people employing you need to see results, then you need to make sure the students learn. But ah - in this case they're not "employing" him are they... (ie, not paying...) If you want to feel some satisfaction in your work (and the lack of payment may make that more important), then you need to make sure the students learn (to make yourself feel better, that you're not wasting your (unpaid) time). But if you're thinking solely about the students themselves - there is no need to make them learn, even if they are paying. (What they do with your teaching, how much attention they pay, how much they practice, is up to them.) The world needs no more guitar players; there are probably way too many already. If your personality and style naturally inspires students, that's great, but I see no point in making an effort in that direction. They have to want to learn, without your input. I firmly believe it's not the teacher's responsiblity to make someone want to learn. Not unless there are external demands, such as for a school or college (who's paying you) to increase the number of passes or successful graduates. Unfortunately, inspiring (even nagging) the students may then be something you occasionally have to do. Of course, the necessity of practice - of sufficient commitment - is something you must stress with students right at the beginning. That's the deal. They should never be under the impression that they're paying you to deliver an ability to them without them making much effort. They have to KNOW that it's their responsibility to learn. So if they're lazy, it's an informed choice, and they know they can only blame themselves. Of course, that doesn't mean teaching is a totally passive act! It can't all come from them, with you as an impassive guru delivering pearls of wisdom for each question. They don't know what they don't know. You have to deliver information . And you have to do it in a way that makes sense, and (crucially) is understandable at the student's level. (Eg, no good talking about how great the modes of melodic minor are when they don't even know what a scale is...) You have to be constantly assessing your own output, according to how well you see it getting through. Ie, you assess their progress, then assess your teaching accordingly (and re-plan if necessary). That's your responsiblity. (If they're failing to get something despite plenty of practice and commitment, that's your fault.) IOW, your teaching has to be efficient and appropriate . It doesn't have to be inspiring. (Good if it is, but it's not necessary.) They shouldn't need kicking. Kicking them is not your responsibility. They shouldn't expect that - which means it IS your responsiblity to tell them at the start that you won't be kicking them. At the same time, it's important to be alert (especially in group lessons) to different personalities, different ways people absorb information. Some will be full of sparky questions all the time. Others will sit quietly, and you may think they're getting it all, but perhaps they're not (and are too shy or proud to ask). That's why you constantly have to check, and get them to play (or explain) things individually. And that can be hard with the shy ones, because you're making them expose themselves and possibly their mistakes. A bit of intuition helps there; if you can tell an individual hasn't quite got something, you can explain it again as a general point, without focussing on them. These are all important teaching skills. But - to repeat - neither inspiring nor nagging students is part of them. (Though hopefully good teaching will both inspire and gently nag at the same time...)

 

 

I'm not sure I understand your point. Asking how important it is to learn in a teaching environment is akin to asking how important it is to learn how to ski when you are at the top of a mountain. Unless you want to forgo the skiing experience, you need to learn to ski.

 

Responsibility in teaching is simple. The teacher's responsibility is to teach. The student's responsibility is to lean. It is simple really.

 

But here is where PHil is getting confused; these people signed up for a class they are blowing off and his background in academic teaching situations and the techniques used in that situation are confusing and frustrating him. The setting and motivation of the students are completely different than what he is used to. There are different metacognative competencies that are at play here.

 

Saying that your teaching has to be 'efficient and appropriate' is all fine and good, but is there a proven system for 'efficient and appropriate' in interest based teaching situations? Well, there isn't. The the student's feeling of knowing, ease of learning, judgements of learning, confidence in retrieval, practice time, and comprehension of informational narrative all vary greatly within any given teaching environment. There are only techniques that can be employed that get results for some and not others. The stuff in his poll show the techniques he is familiar with. There are different teaching techniques for this environment.

 

As clear as your posts always are, this one confused me! I'm not sure what you are saying.....

[Krank'N]

Being a good student requires a commitment. Our society is based on consumerism and by the time your students become adults they have been fully indocrinated into that mindset. Children not so much. Children are easier to motivate if you can keep it entertaining. Children arent so concerned about the price of lessons relative to the quality. Adults are more likely to value lessons if they pay something even if its nominal.They are more likely to practice in return for an "investment". Adults may treat free lessons like free samples at the grocers!

[fhh]

some will likely know of the guitar class I run and teach here.

Just curious, what's "here"? Harmony Central?

[PhilGould]

Responsibility in teaching is simple. The teacher's responsibility is to teach. The student's responsibility is to lean. It is simple really.

Yep!

But here is where PHil is getting confused; these people signed up for a class they are blowing off and his background in academic teaching situations and the techniques used in that situation are confusing and frustrating him. The setting and motivation of the students are completely different than what he is used to. There are different metacognative competencies that are at play here.

I'd also add another issue to this. In the academic situations I've been in, and also within my own teaching, there is both implicit and explicit pressure from the managing body for any potential student or participant to both commit to the general subject and also commit to developing areas of personal interest or specific fields. With this class, the managing body seems unwilling to press this upon potential students, as well as not making them aware of what I'm actually going to be teaching them or what this may involve skill-wise. I might be pressing for commitment but when the student isn't even really aware of what the course involves, or even if they are suitable, chances are that the student WILL drop out.

Saying that your teaching has to be 'efficient and appropriate' is all fine and good, but is there a proven system for 'efficient and appropriate' in interest based teaching situations? Well, there isn't. The the student's feeling of knowing, ease of learning, judgements of learning, confidence in retrieval, practice time, and comprehension of informational narrative all vary greatly within any given teaching environment. There are only techniques that can be employed that get results for some and not others. The stuff in his poll show the techniques he is familiar with. There are different teaching techniques for this environment.

THis is very true.

Problem also with music is that it's really quite subjective too. Rules and theoretical principles, upon which a lot of my language teaching relies, are often limited in their use when it comes to teaching music. I'm a fairly theory-orientated person too, which likely does not help.

[NewGuyonGuitar]

Phil, how has this been going for you?

[PhilGould]

Phil, how has this been going for you?

 

 

Hey

 

I spoke with the students and basically told them bluntly and honestly about the attendance and instrument issues as a group, so that everyone got the same message at the same time. I also allowed some student feedback, where they could ask questions and also voice their own comments on the lessons. That way I couldn't be accused of not listening to the students.

 

I also did the same in informing senior management in person after I arranged a meeting and told them, in a fairly straight-out, blunt manner of all the issues I mentioned in my OP.

 

It didn't get any better, so I again arranged a meeting with the senior manager and informed him that I would continue until a suitable breakoff point two weeks later and then I would be stepping down, and I would be more than happy to assist in finding a replacement if needed.

[Pitar]

An altruistic and passionate guitar player expecting to get what he gives from his students, doesn't, and then expects his complaints to be valid? No offense meant here but...really? When a man dishes out a free to free-loaders don't expect them to bring their own place settings. Bums come in all sizes and colors and many have it developed it into a (vagrant's) craft. You are being played by your own desire to play and the guy who missed and got argumentative with you about it is trying to sculpt you. Move on.

[PhilGould]

An altruistic and passionate guitar player expecting to get what he gives from his students, doesn't, and then expects his complaints to be valid? No offense meant here but...really? When a man dishes out a free to free-loaders don't expect them to bring their own place settings. Bums come in all sizes and colors and many have it developed it into a (vagrant's) craft. You are being played by your own desire to play and the guy who missed and got argumentative with you about it is trying to sculpt you. Move on.

 

 

I don't think it's as easy as that or that all my pupils were 'freeloaders' or anything lik it, but that some probably DO care about learning guitar properly. At least that's what I want to believe is true. And it likely is, to an extent. Those truly keen people have been cheated alongside me by those who messed me about and they are likely going to be the ones who suffer most.