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Lesson problems...and I'm ready to walk. What should I do?


PhilGould

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Posted

I've posted in here a few times and so some will likely know of the guitar class I run and teach here.

In more recent times, I've noticed an disproportionately large amount of problems with this class, which is frustrating bearing in mind this is a small class of 4 people plus myself.

Problem 1: Attendance. I've had so far, in 6 weeks worth of lessons, probably no more than 2 people of the 4 signed up come to any one lesson, and in one case a student attended the initial taster and then the first session, only to not turn up again until last week. This student then got very argumentative with me when I withdrew her from the class activities.

Problem 2: 'Flaky' students. I've tried to ensure, to the best of my abilities at least, that students practice at home, study any materials I give out, do extra stuff towards their music etc. The number of times I've been lied to, when it's obvious that they've not done as I've asked, is astronomical. I've heard practice exercises being played where it is plain to see that they've likely never looked at the piece since I gave it to them. Ditto written exercises, which I'll say aren't particularly difficult or lengthy,but usually single-sided pieces of paper which take probably no more than 10min a time to do.

Problem 3: Getting instruments. Fair enough, money might be tight for some people, but it is not particularly difficult to find an inexpensive playable acoustic guitar second-hand or a beginners pack or something which makes a note. At least one student has been promising me that she's got a guitar 'somewhere in the attic' but so far I've had excuse after excuse as to why this promised guitar has never appeared.

To my mind I've got three options (I'll poll these to make it easier). Which one do I choose? Or if you can think of something better, please tell me, as I'm fully prepared to walk away from this whole thing, because I'm sick of it.

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Posted

You should talk to them all to make sure they know where they stand. Good or bad, no confusion, no gossip, no finger pointing.


Were it me I would:


Demand that coming with a guitar is mandatory. Failure to bring it they can sit and watch the lesson but not participate.


Separate the people who did the homework from those that haven't. Make those that haven't work as a group on last weeks lesson. Then you dedicate your attention to those that have. Checking in of course on those slackers.


Group lessons are pretty much a built in disaster. But one of the things a good teacher must teach is the value of dedication. You folding is showing them that when the going gets tough - bail. Which is exactly the opposite of what is required to get through the frustration of the beginning stages.


I am really not sure your experience level with teaching but one of the things a good instructor must be is creative... Perhaps your lessons aren't engaging to them? Put yourself in their shoes... are you a teacher you would want to have? Sometimes the finger must point back too.


Bottom line: You need to figure out a way to make the Bad News Bears tick. You may never get there, but the very act of trying will teach you something very valuable stuff YOU get to take away from the experience.

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Posted

Hi Phil!


I concur with pretty much everything that Jeremy said. I tend to run my classes in a way where I'm moving a little faster than the students can keep up with. Just a little though.


I teach at Berklee in Boston. My class sizes are typically 6-10 students. Sometimes privates, and occasionally I do seminars with 50 or more students.


Here are some tips:


-Make your objectives clear as a bell: "In this class, you will learn these things. This is how we'll learn about them. This is how you'll be held accountable for this information. These are the ways this stuff will help you play better."


-Sound good when you play for your students. If you sound great when you play, your students will eventually be curious as to WHY you sound so much better than they do. Law of attraction.


-Make your policies clear and stick to them. I make it a habit of rarely/never speaking above a normal tone. This way if the class is too noisy (and my information is valuable), they will quiet themselves. If it gets out of control, I stop speaking until they quiet themselves (uncomfortable silence is MUCH more powerful than yelling...) If the students are late getting to class, they will find that I've already begun the class. If they want to catch the beginning, they need to be in their seats when class starts.


-Be organized. Start on time. End on time. Have your act together for every class. Don't wing it.


-Be patient. Often, when the student asks a stupid question, it can be the key that opens them up.


-Listen to what your students tell you without judging them. If you do that they'll tell you what they need.


-"No-one cares how much you know until they know how much you care" (quote from Stephen Covey's "7 habits of Highly Effective People.


-Show them how much you love to play guitar. On my worst days, they still know I love to play!

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Posted

 

Quote Originally Posted by jeremy_green

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You should talk to them all to make sure they know where they stand. Good or bad, no confusion, no gossip, no finger pointing.


Were it me I would:


Demand that coming with a guitar is mandatory. Failure to bring it they can sit and watch the lesson but not participate.


Separate the people who did the homework from those that haven't. Make those that haven't work as a group on last weeks lesson. Then you dedicate your attention to those that have. Checking in of course on those slackers.

 

Sounds like a good plan! thumb.gif


 

Group lessons are pretty much a built in disaster. But one of the things a good teacher must teach is the value of dedication. You folding is showing them that when the going gets tough - bail. Which is exactly the opposite of what is required to get through the frustration of the beginning stages.

 

I should have added that this isn't the first guitar group I've taught for the organisation I'm with, and with that group it was much the same thing all over again, except worse. To my mind I can't keep pushing this thing along forever. It just seems to me that free guitar classes seem to attract flakes and timewasters, because they lose nothing.


Which hurts when I turned down paid guitar classes to do this.


 

I am really not sure your experience level with teaching but one of the things a good instructor must be is creative... Perhaps your lessons aren't engaging to them? Put yourself in their shoes... are you a teacher you would want to have? Sometimes the finger must point back

 

I've been teaching music in various settings for 6 years, including a youth worship band and a small jazz beginners group. With all these, I never had ANY issues with any student and I received some very good feedback with regard to my own teaching methods and knowledge.


My rule is to teach as I would want to be taught. But there is only a certain amount I can do when it comes to the basics, as it's got to be learnt and fair enough, it's also not that interesting sometimes.

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Posted

Free guitar classes and you're paid nothing to do it? Please allow me to change my answer. My rule would be simple: The second it stops being fun, I can't do it anymore. Life's too short.

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The students aren't paying for the lessons?? Ahhhh there's the problem right there. I even charge close friends for lessons and this is why. They need some skin in the game otherwise there is no accountability.


BTW - I didn't mean to insinuate that you are not doing a good job or are unqualified. Just outlining the considerations.

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You have some level of emotional investment in the class. You're teaching it because you want to share your joy of music, or you enjoy teaching, or you like the orginization you're helping out....something.


The students don't have that kind of investment, yet. This isn't a class in college, they aren't paying for it, they don't win cash when they finish.


Learning music is hard work. Couple that with no obligation from them financially or emotionally and you have students who aren't terribly motivated.


I don't know what the answer is. I've never been in that situation.


But it seems like you have a hard road to go.


Off the top of my head, maybe for next time, you can clearly outline guidelines to reduce your headaches and improve their attendance/interest. Put in your syllabus that 90% attendance is mandatory, or they will be dismissed. Or give them a quiz each class and if they don't maintain a high grade, they will be dismissed. Sounds a little draconian, but why waste your time?

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Posted

What age are these people? Is it at a high school or community center? A lot of people think it would be great to play guitar (or any instrument), but they don't want to put in the time or effort to make it happen.


I've got a good buddy who "plays" the drums. Well, he owns an acoustic kit and an electronic kit. He left his acoustic kit at my house, which is fine with me because now I've got a complete jam room... but the dude never plays the electronic kit he has at home. He is also friends with my neighbors so we hang out 3-4 times a month and once he has a couple beers in him he wants to play the drums. He can sort of keep a simple beat, but he can't really play. What does he expect when he only plays 2-3 times a month and NEVER practices. He just doesn't want to put in the effort. He could make a ton of improvement just by playing 30-60 minutes a day on the electronic kit with a pair of headphones playing along to stuff, but he won't do it. Like Albert King said, everybody wants to go to Heaven... but nobody wants to die.


I definitely wouldn't spend my free time "teaching" people to play who aren't putting in any effort. They're not getting anything from it and neither are you... what's the point?

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Quote Originally Posted by jeremy_green

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The students aren't paying for the lessons?? Ahhhh there's the problem right there. I even charge close friends for lessons and this is why. They need some skin in the game otherwise there is no accountability.


BTW - I didn't mean to insinuate that you are not doing a good job or are unqualified. Just outlining the considerations.

 

It must be said that the management, whilst keen to get a music group started, were less keen when the issue of any sort of pay or reward was mentioned by me.


And don't worry, I wasn't getting pissy with you.


 

Quote Originally Posted by NewGuyonGuitar

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You have some level of emotional investment in the class. You're teaching it because you want to share your joy of music, or you enjoy teaching, or you like the orginization you're helping out....something.

 

I care about the guitar. Whether I'm teaching, playing or writing about it, doesn't make a difference to me.


 

The students don't have that kind of investment, yet. This isn't a class in college, they aren't paying for it, they don't win cash when they finish.

Learning music is hard work. Couple that with no obligation from them financially or emotionally and you have students who aren't terribly motivated.

 

I wouldn't say that financial obligations are necessarily any guarantee of motivating a student to learn in a class, as I've had previously some VERY good students who weren't paying for my classes and yet still did the work and got on with learning the guitar.


 

I don't know what the answer is. I've never been in that situation.


But it seems like you have a hard road to go.

 

Even I don't know the answer and I've been in this situation before.


 

Off the top of my head, maybe for next time, you can clearly outline guidelines to reduce your headaches and improve their attendance/interest. Put in your syllabus that 90% attendance is mandatory, or they will be dismissed. Or give them a quiz each class and if they don't maintain a high grade, they will be dismissed. Sounds a little draconian, but why waste your time?

 

Worth a try.
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Quote Originally Posted by PhilGould

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I wouldn't say that financial obligations are necessarily any guarantee of motivating a student to learn in a class, as I've had previously some VERY good students who weren't paying for my classes and yet still did the work and got on with learning the guitar.

 

I would say from my experience that this would be an exceptional situation. Sure there are people who will respect the process... but sadly I wouldn't say that is the norm.


I have had many students (friends) I taught for free... The reason i began charging EVERYBODY is that there was a definite correlation between money and accountability and results (lots of 'ands'). Attendance improves immensely when there is money in it. People just don't like paying for nothing.


Your management is kind of missing this insight... Best intentions I am sure. Perhaps the students should pay, then all the money goes to a book or take away at the end of the course... even a pizza party or something (uknowing of course, make a nice surprise).

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The absence of cash changing hands (either from them or to you) makes all the difference here.


Essentially I agree with Jeremy. My own personal view:


If they don't bring a guitar, ignore them. Deal with those who have. (I have no problem with observers. But if they have no instrument they forfeit the right to your attention. You would need to make that clear. Those with guitar have priority.)

If the guitar-less ones ask a polite question, you can choose to answer it politely, if you think it will help the others. Often it will, but that has to be the issue; is it a sensible question, with a revealing answer?


If they don't practise between lessons that's really their problem. (IMO that applies whether they've paid or not. Nobody has to learn guitar if they don't want to. You should never have to be nagging people to practise. What's the point of that? It would only make sense if you were getting paid by results.)

But if you're not being paid, you have to get some kind of personal reward or enjoyment out of it - which comes back to focussing on the students who do seem keen, who want to benefit from your knowledge.


I don't know about "blasting" them. It depends how good you are at that sort of thing. Handle it wrong and you might just lose all the students, even the ones that liked you (up to that point). But you can still be firm about laying the deal on the line, about what you expect. Treat them like adults, not kids - even if they are kids.

You can of course walk away, ultimately, and you may as well tell them that; that's the only threat you have really. Your time and knowledge is worth something, and they need to respect that. If they're not paying, the risk is that they think what they're getting from you is not worth anything. But if your presence there is not a given, if it depends on their respect (shown by them taking the lessons seriously), that should wake them up enough. But IMO you need to stay cool. Cool, but deadly serious (about that at least).


It's about responsibility. Learning has to be THEIR responsibility, not yours. You teach - but they learn (if they want to). Tell them no one ever became a guitar hero by just going to guitar lessons; they did it by obsessive practice at home, with or without lessons. If they don't have that obsession, that commitment, that drive, they simply won't get anywhere - even into a crap amateur band; if they don't practise they're simply wasting their time coming to lessons at all. And that's for them to worry about, not you. Jimi Hendrix (or pick any guitar hero you like) didn't have to be nagged to practice; more likely he had to be nagged to stop practising occasionally...


Teaching for free has an honourable pedigree. It was a condition of Ravi Shankar teaching sitar. He didn't want money; the student "paid" with their commitment, their respect for the craft, the art and the culture. That was reward enough for Ravi.

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I've never given lessons, but I have taken them. I just think the people OP is teaching don't care enough to learn. If the people started paying I don't think they'd start practicing... I think they would just quit the lessons.

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I've never given lessons, but I have taken them. I just think the people OP is teaching don't care enough to learn. If the people started paying I don't think they'd start practicing... I think they would just quit the lessons.

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Quote Originally Posted by jeremy_green

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I would say from my experience that this would be an exceptional situation. Sure there are people who will respect the process... but sadly I wouldn't say that is the norm.


I have had many students (friends) I taught for free... The reason i began charging EVERYBODY is that there was a definite correlation between money and accountability and results (lots of 'ands'). Attendance improves immensely when there is money in it. People just don't like paying for nothing.

 

Well what probably helped in the case of the students I taught in that situation was that it was a church there was the promise of a regular performance slot with the worship band.


 

Your management is kind of missing this insight... Best intentions I am sure. Perhaps the students should pay, then all the money goes to a book or take away at the end of the course... even a pizza party or something (uknowing of course, make a nice surprise).

 

Well I seem to recall that when the issue of any payment was raised in my initial planning meeting, the major concern was that as I was dealing with potential students who could be unemployed or on other benefits. Even when I suggested a VERY small (for tuition fees anyway) fee of
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Quote Originally Posted by JR13

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free lessons? sign me up biggrin.gif

 

Me too but do I have to actually be there for the lessons?


I have many important things to do.

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Me too but do I have to actually be there for the lessons?


I have many important things to do.

LOL.

 

I'm sure you can phone or email your practice in. There must be an iPhone app for that....

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...the major concern was that as I was dealing with potential students who could be unemployed or on other benefits. Even when I suggested a VERY small (for tuition fees anyway) fee of

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It's understandable in that case that (as Virgman kind of says) the students have other things on their minds. You're performing a volunteer social service, which is - of course - very admirable. Getting angry with your "clients", laying down the law, would not do any good, either for them or for you. It has to be a kind of recreation - for both them and you.


I'd suggest a project of forming a band of some kind
. The players don't have to be very good - crucial to underline that. If they turn up with no guitar, give them a tambourine or something to play. Or they can sing, or dance. (At least they've turned up...) If they can't play chords in time, they can tap the guitar body in time. IOW, even for the least able members, they'll have a goal to look forward to, something they can join in with, be part of a
team
, which will have the added benefit of improving their self-esteem. IOW, it has to be about carrot, not stick
;)
.

 

I think that's a great idea! :thu:

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Posted
It's understandable in that case that (as Virgman kind of says) the students have other things on their minds. You're performing a volunteer social service, which is - of course - very admirable. Getting angry with your "clients", laying down the law, would not do any good, either for them or for you. It has to be a kind of recreation - for both them and you.


I'd suggest a project of forming a band of some kind. The players don't have to be very good - crucial to underline that. If they turn up with no guitar, give them a tambourine or something to play. Or they can sing, or dance. (At least they've turned up...) If they can't play chords in time, they can tap the guitar body in time. IOW, even for the least able members, they'll have a goal to look forward to, something they can join in with, be part of a
team
, which will have the added benefit of improving their self-esteem. IOW, it has to be about carrot, not stick
;)
.



i'm not trying to be difficult here, but the band idea, whilst being perfectly fine for some situations, is not what I signed up to do, and to the best of my knowledge isn't what my students want either. I have always treated any teaching opportunity equally, whether paid or not, and I assume that any student in front of me has the ability to learn guitar to a high standard (because I don't believe in the nonsense of being 'born musical'. Anyone can learn a few chords and put together a simple tune), even if it's three chords and a handful of well-known songs that they learn really well.

But to me this situation I'm in seems to place me in the role of playing babysitter to people who just don't give a toss about the class but want a result. I can't get people who can't even learn a basic E chord to then play a song or do an activity.

I've given them incentive in that they've all suggested songs they're desperate to learn and I'm more than happy to teach them so that they can play them, with the possibility of me arranging some sort of performance for them to play live too.

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I've given them incentive in that they've all suggested songs they're desperate to learn and I'm more than happy to teach them so that they can play them, with the possibility of me arranging some sort of performance for them to play live too.

Sounds to me like that should be plenty.

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