Knowing to play the "right" notes of the scale?

[Incubus]

I've been playing around with the modes of the major scale over backing tracks on Youtube. I've found that not every note of any given scale sounds good when playing, let's say I'm playing in D Dorian, not running up every note of the scale sounds "melodic". I've found skipping certain notes and playing those sparingly and only at certain times sound "right". So I guess my question comes down to how do I know which notes only sound "right" to play?

[JonR]

The simple answer is chord tones.
At a basic level, that means the arpeggio of whatever chord you're playing over.
So - eg - D dorian means essentially a Dm chord. The notes that will sound most "inside" in that mode are D, F and A, root 3rd and 5th of the triad.
C and E (7th and 9th) should also sound good, as should G (4th or 11th).
That only leaves B: it's not a "bad" note, but is the most distinctive, the one that may stand out most. It's the "character" note of the mode, the one that makes the mode different from a normal D minor scale.

For other modes, slightly different rules (or effects) will apply. But always be thinking about each note you play in relation to the root note of the mode or chord; every one has its own character.
Root and 5th are always very "solid" and reliable, but not very interesting;
The 3rd is the main "identity" of the chord, telling you whether it's major or minor;
The 7th adds a little tension, an edge - b7s have a softer tension, maj7s (eg B on a C chord or E on an F) more "poignant";
The 9th (2nd) is usually a "sweet" note, on major or minor chords - but in phrygian it's a b2, a very "dark" effect;
The 4th (11th) can be tricky on some chords: an edgy suspension on majors, a smooth extension on minors;
The 6th is another hugely variable note, changing its effect from mode to mode.

Remember these are all measured from the chord root (root of the mode), not the key note of the relative major scale.

As well as playing like this, with regard to the arpeggio of the root chord, you can superimpose other arpeggios sometimes. Eg, on a D dorian chord, try a C major arp (C-E-G), or an Am one (A-C-E) for some expressive variety.

[c+t in b]

Read up on avoid notes. Most modes have these. Avoid doesn't mean that you can't play it. It means you don't want to focus on it or hold it against the chord, otherwise there will be a clash.

Some common avoid notes are the 4th/11th in Ionian, The natural 6th/13th in Dorian, the b6th/13th in Phrygian, the 4th/11th in Mixolydian, the b6th/13th in Aeolian, the b2nd/9th in Locrian. Lydian has no avoid notes.

[JonR]

^ Right.

A good tip to remember which notes are "avoid notes" is that they are all (with one exception) a half-step above a chord tone.
Any diatonic note (within the key you're playing in) which is a half-step above a note in the chord makes a nasty clash with the chord tone, if held against the chord, especially at a minor 9th (octave+half-step) above the chord tone in question. (You can still use it in passing in melodic lines, but it won't sound good to rest on it.)

This includes the root of a maj7 chord, if played an octave+half-step above the maj7.

The exception to the 1/2-step above principle is the 6th of Dorian. The problem with this note is not that it makes a bad-sounding interval with any lower note. It's not always a note to avoid.
In a tune in the key of D minor, we can end on a Dm6 chord (Dm with B extension), and even use Dm6 occasionally in the middle of the song. Dm6 might also crop up in an A minor tune, and is a common inversion of Bm7b5, leading well to E7 (and then Am).
In a tune in D dorian mode, we might not want to hang on to the B too long, but it's an acceptable modal "colour" note.

The problem comes when we have a Dm-G progression in C major. On the Dm chord, the B combines with the F to make a tritone. Nothing wrong with that, except that it belongs in G7 (or maybe a Bdim chord).
The B note is a critical part of the G7 chord, so it needs to be preserved for that. A Dm chord with a B attached (Dm6) just sounds like a rootless G9 chord, or a Bm7b5; it's not different enough from G7. Which is why we always use Dm7-G7, not Dm6-G7.

(Apologies - to Incubus - if this all goes over your head! But it would be good for you to study some basic key theory, along with the idea of functional chord changes. It's a different perspective from the modal perspective, and is generally (IMO) more useful.)

[jeremy_green]

The worst day for me was the day that i realized that the scale changes each time the chord behind it changes ... What this implies seems like a scary amount of work - and IT IS. But this is why great players are great... If this was easy we'd all be great... then nobody would be great!

Three words:
Get a Looper

If you have one then set up a groove Using the I chord ... work your scale over it, find all the tensions (crud thats hard to wield). Get a REALLY good handle on it. Then do the same thing with the ii chord ... then the iii on and on. Do this for a long time, do it regularly until you understand what's going on.

Reading about it, looking for shortcuts all that take you away from what NEEDS to happen. You need to get these sounds into your ears. Reading advice on a forum won't do it (although it will direct you).

I will offer you something to consider though... Inside each Major scale form lies the pentatonic version of that fingering. For me I see these as the skeleton of the form. These are the strong notes in many cases. You can almost always rely on one of these notes to sound not too dissonant.... but there are always exceptions.

Chord tones are the shiz. There is only one way to get there. Shed it.

Good luck

[c+t in b]

I just wanted to add to the dorian exception which jon mentioned. The main reason the natural 6th clashes is not because of a dissonance per se. It's because the interval formed between the natural 6th and the 3rd of a dorian chord forms a tritone which changes the sound of the chord to a dominant. It's the same reason that you can't use a natural 13 tension on a dorian chord even though it appears to be available.

[JonR]

 

Originally Posted by c+t in b

I just wanted to add to the dorian exception which jon mentioned. The main reason the natural 6th clashes is not because of a dissonance per se. It's because the interval formed between the natural 6th and the 3rd of a dorian chord forms a tritone which changes the sound of the chord to a dominant.

 

Thanks c+t - I did actually say that, but maybe in a more roundabout, less clear form!

[Pine Apple Slim]

Knowing to play the "right" notes of the scale?

Simple answer =

[3shiftgtr]

FORM OPINIONS

Chord tones are sweet. Avoid notes are sometimes to be avoided. The maj 7 wants to resolve to the 1 on a V7 to I cadence, cuz the 7 of the I is the 3 of the V7. *sighs* But these things and all things like them, are academic guidelines. If you LOVE the way the avoid notes rub, and that is what makes your ticker tick, then that means that you're the guy that makes the avoid notes work. And if the avoid note rub is yecch, avoid away.

MIles took deep grief for the stuff he did. As did Coltrane, but they followed their path. Form your opinions about what you love. Focus on that. It's YOUR ear that counts....let the academic stuff help, but follow your inspiration. Live the art of finding the music within.

[Sandy Cheeks]

Stay consonant my friend and you will sound like a {censored}ing wind chime.

[Krank'N]

Any note can be the right note..its all about the context and intent of the musician. Learn to play what you hear in your head. A phrase that is simple but has meaning to the player is better than a flurry of notes without soul. Learn to think in terms of tension ,resolution and pace.

[jonfinn]

Originally Posted by Incubus

I've been playing around with the modes of the major scale over backing tracks on Youtube. I've found that not every note of any given scale sounds good when playing, let's say I'm playing in D Dorian, not running up every note of the scale sounds "melodic". I've found skipping certain notes and playing those sparingly and only at certain times sound "right". So I guess my question comes down to how do I know which notes only sound "right" to play?

All great response! For me, a huge paradigm change came when I learned the difference between playing something and understanding it.

A few questions you can ask yourself as you proceed:

-When I play a note, do I recognize it?

-Is the note I played really the note I intended to play? Or was it a happy accident?

-Can I hear in my head the possibilities of where to go next? If so, can I find those notes without hesitating?

My point is that scales are convenient descriptors that group sets of notes together as a way of internally organizing. Knowing the scale puts you in the correct zip code, but not much more.

One tip is to practice improvising with the use of "target notes": Take a chord progression that you want to improvise over, pre-plan what note you want to land on for each chord, the work on improvising in a way that connects all your target notes. Do it enough and you'll start hearing more possibilities.

[alez]

I generally make a distiction between modal music and tonal music.

For modal, I use the approach mentioned by Jeremy Green above (known as chord-scale theory). Use the one scale that fits each chord type best.

For tonal, this doesn't work for me at all. Lydian works good over IV in major, but sounds awkward to me over I. Modes were invented for modal. Tonal requires BOTH chord and key awareness.

I've been working on this ideas lately and will be starting a thread to share them, but in the meantime, you are welcome to have a look to the PDF I've written on the topic and would welcome any feedback:
http://www.vm-electronica.com/taweno/scales.pdf