New Roland GR-55 Guitar to MIDI processor with COSM guitar processing.

[Polaris20]

So it seems he also has an axon? Cool! If this thing drives external synths as fast as an axon I would buy it in a heartbeat!

 

 

Yeah, he's got an AX100.

 

It seems a lot of the people claiming the tracking isn't improved and/or doesn't drive external stuff well are people that aren't really paying attention to how the manual describes setting it up. This unit is vastly different to prior GR series pieces. I would recommend people download the PDF on Roland's site to take a look.

[mygolfcart123]

 

Yeah, he's got an AX100. It seems a lot of the people claiming the tracking isn't improved and/or doesn't drive external stuff well are people that aren't really paying attention to how the manual describes setting it up. This unit is vastly different to prior GR series pieces. I would recommend people download the PDF on Roland's site to take a look.

 

 

 

From what I have read on the VG forums it is just under par of the axon on the 5th and 6th strings, but THAT is if you are going to play like EVH on them! Here is a quote from one of the posts over there.

 

"In my early use, I find the initial tracking on the low E string really good, better than the GR-33, but maybe just a tad under par to the AXON. Where the AXON shines, to me, on the low E (and A) is when you're doing a very fast run; like tremolo picking, the Roland may not pick up all the tremolo notes. I usually run 9's, but I swapped out the bass strings from a set of 10's (36 and 46 A and E strings) and that helped a lot.

 

So it seems it also tracks well with external synths....maybe not quite as fast as an axon, but pretty fast.

[Polaris20]

 

From what I have read on the VG forums it is just under par of the axon on the 5th and 6th strings, but THAT is if you are going to play like EVH on them! Here is a quote from one of the posts over there. "In my early use, I find the initial tracking on the low E string really good, better than the GR-33, but maybe just a tad under par to the AXON. Where the AXON shines, to me, on the low E (and A) is when you're doing a very fast run; like tremolo picking, the Roland may not pick up all the tremolo notes. I usually run 9's, but I swapped out the bass strings from a set of 10's (36 and 46 A and E strings) and that helped a lot. So it seems it also tracks well with external synths....maybe not quite as fast as an axon, but pretty fast.

 

 

I run 10-46 strings anyway, so it's not a problem. Mine's on order, we'll see how it turns out.

[falseknight]

For comparison to GR50, which I still use with a Godin LGXT (Okay, I'm a dinosaur):

 

GR50 allows two voice patches, each consisting of up to four partials PER STRING. Okay, voice programming is NOT easy, but patch programming is. Externally, you can choose whether midi channels are assigned per string (one or two) or overall.

 

You can run internal sounds and externally triggered sounds (two voices per string, two external midi channels per string) simultaneously in one patch. Now I'm not saying you should, but you can.

 

Tracking/latency IS worse with external midi channels, and one channel is slower than the other (midi issue, not tracking issue), but proper organisation of parts hides this. In short, you are limited by your skills as a midi programmer. Now how much of this flexibility is carried forward?

[Polaris20]

For comparison to GR50, which I still use with a Godin LGXT (Okay, I'm a dinosaur): GR50 allows two voice patches, each consisting of up to four partials PER STRING. Okay, voice programming is NOT easy, but patch programming is. Externally, you can choose whether midi channels are assigned per string (one or two) or overall. You can run internal sounds and externally triggered sounds (two voices per string, two external midi channels per string) simultaneously in one patch. Now I'm not saying you should, but you can. Tracking/latency IS worse with external midi channels, and one channel is slower than the other (midi issue, not tracking issue), but proper organisation of parts hides this. In short, you are limited by your skills as a midi programmer. Now how much of this flexibility is carried forward?

 

 

So you're talking about the GR-50 now? How is this relevant to the 55?

[falseknight]

Simple:

 

Everyone is saying what the GR55 will and will not do. Comparison with a twenty year old unit which, from the synth point of view appears to do far more puts the march of progress into perspective.

[Polaris20]

 

Simple: Everyone is saying what the GR55 will and will not do. Comparison with a twenty year old unit which, from the synth point of view appears to do far more puts the march of progress into perspective.

 

 

As has been said before, if the features it lacks are features which 90% of the people wouldn't use, they'll get dropped. Roland is going for the best combination of usability and performance, not placating a small obscure set of the userbase.

[falseknight]

Sure, it's a matter of choice - but the choice is to accept the facilities Roland currently offer or not. Th economics is that Roland have to convince the punters that their latest offering is better than what they offered previously, because they have to move product to new users, or convince the current user base that what they are currently offering is 'must have'. Surprise! I'm not convinced. I prefer Digitech processors to Boss/Roland (no I hate the Boss GT series with a deep and complete loathing) so I either get incorporated a processor i am not going to use or i sell on my current stuff.

 

So you can layer clean, processed and synthesised sounds. BIG DEAL! There has always been a guitar out on the back of the unit and what is wrong with using two (or three) leads. With external midi links, I've always been able switch patches on the synth from my effects rig. What's new, other than the fact you don't have to get involved in the midi interface tomake it happen?

[germanicus2112]

Simple: Everyone is saying what the GR55 will and will not do. Comparison with a twenty year old unit which, from the synth point of view appears to do far more puts the march of progress into perspective.

 

 

Yeah I appreciate how having multiple different sounds per string could be interesting, but I think this would only be used by an extremely small subset of potential midi guitarists. You CAN get a similar functionality by outputting each string in poly mode to a seperate multitimbral external sound module.

 

But ultimately for myself the primary questions regarding the 55's value were 1) does the unit track better (less glitches and misses) and 2) are the pcm sounds a significant improvement. For me, the answer is yes in both cases. The tracking isnt perfect, but its better, and im able to do things I was not able to on previous roland GR units.

Throw in cosm guitar, effect, and amp modelling, and the unit is extremely useful/worthwhile.

[germanicus2112]

Sure, it's a matter of choice - but the choice is to accept the facilities Roland currently offer or not. Th economics is that Roland have to convince the punters that their latest offering is better than what they offered previously, because they have to move product to new users, or convince the current user base that what they are currently offering is 'must have'. Surprise! I'm not convinced. I prefer Digitech processors to Boss/Roland (no I hate the Boss GT series with a deep and complete loathing) so I either get incorporated a processor i am not going to use or i sell on my current stuff. So you can layer clean, processed and synthesised sounds. BIG DEAL! There has always been a guitar out on the back of the unit and what is wrong with using two (or three) leads. With external midi links, I've always been able switch patches on the synth from my effects rig. What's new, other than the fact you don't have to get involved in the midi interface tomake it happen?

 

 

Having a guitar out on the back of older units does give equivalent functionality.

 

I dont think you appreciate what the cosm GUITAR modelling does. Forget the Effects and Amp modelling you get in the unit, just look at the guitar modelling.

Its basically like having rolands version of the variax guitar in a GR unit. Theres no tracking involved in the COSM guitar modelling, so the response is essentially instantaneous. You get modelled tele, strat, acoustic guitar, sitar, lp, resonator, 12 strings, and more. Additionally, you can have alternately tuned guitars stored with whatever tuning you want in a patch, and then add whatever synths you want to the mix. No other GR unit can do this. In fact, no other unit by any manufacturer period can (both guitar modelling and internal PCM synth engine). The only way to previously get this functionality was having either a Variax with a seperate midi setup attached, or a VG99 system driving an external sound module.

[falseknight]

It's not so much the multiple voices on a string (though the velocity changes are VERY useful), it is the ability to have different (or no)voices on either each string, or a group of strings. Tracking is ALWAYS an issue, which is why i acquired the Godin four years ago. it's incomparably better than the Roland hexaphonic pickups. if you string sensibly and tailor your technique to the strengths and weaknesses of the rig (in the same way you would tailor your technique to, say, acoustic guitar) there are no major issues.

 

Incidentally I DO understand the modelling - I hate it with a real passion. I started lifeas an acoustic guitarist and still play as much acoustic as anything else. There is far more to the instrument than the sound. A Martin 021 sounds and feels entirely different than a Gibson B20. You can emulate a Tele or a Strat on a whole variety of different rigs, but they don't feel like the real thing, I've played with 12 sting voices on a six string and been VERY confused, and have come close to feeling sick with the disorientation of playing software altered tunings on a Variax. I didn't 'get' the VG series. If I'm honest, I don't 'get' amp modelling, preferring the 'real thing' - but I LOVE having new voices for guitar which I can shape and control using the techniques I have spent years leanring - and which provide far more control of shape of pitch than a keyboard player can ever hope to achieve via midi.

[germanicus2112]

It's not so much the multiple voices on a string (though the velocity changes are VERY useful), it is the ability to have different (or no)voices on either each string, or a group of strings. Tracking is ALWAYS an issue, which is why i acquired the Godin four years ago. it's incomparably better than the Roland hexaphonic pickups. if you string sensibly and tailor your technique to the strengths and weaknesses of the rig (in the same way you would tailor your technique to, say, acoustic guitar) there are no major issues.

 

 

Well you can set the volumes independently for either of the PCM engines on each and every one of the strings. Ie have a french horn on strings 5 and 6, and a piano on 1 - 4. Also, there is velocity switching, Roland calls it 'Nuance' control. Ive owned two godins (XTSa and an LGXT), and neither of them tracked as cleanly as my gr55 is doing currently with a gk3. So its possible the godin on a gr55 could be even better.

[falseknight]

One of my favourite GR50 patches is velocity switched plucked to bowed bass (an octave below true) on 5 and 6, with a fast decay piano and slow rise strings on 1 to 4 - with just enough guitar to keep the apparent tracking crisp. Everything we do is illusion to a greater or lesser extent.

[mygolfcart123]

Well despite how some may feel about the unit I am beginning to think this is a pretty good deal at $700.00! You get a synth unit, a COSM based guitar modeling and amp modeling as well as a 20 second looper and effects.

 

Plus it is supposed to be almost as fast as a axon unit when hooked up to another synth rack.

 

I may get this when I get my income tax check. It would be great to leave my MIDI guitar stuff (Axon AX 100 Mark II and yamaha motif rack XS combo)setup at church and carry this around if I play out anywhere.

 

A lot of things on her that the GR 33 or 50 does not have. Plus the ability to have TWO separate sounds like sax and piano playing at once with two other separate effects makes this a good thing in my book.

[Polaris20]

 

It's not so much the multiple voices on a string (though the velocity changes are VERY useful), it is the ability to have different (or no)voices on either each string, or a group of strings. Tracking is ALWAYS an issue, which is why i acquired the Godin four years ago. it's incomparably better than the Roland hexaphonic pickups. if you string sensibly and tailor your technique to the strengths and weaknesses of the rig (in the same way you would tailor your technique to, say, acoustic guitar) there are no major issues. Incidentally I DO understand the modelling - I hate it with a real passion. I started lifeas an acoustic guitarist and still play as much acoustic as anything else. There is far more to the instrument than the sound. A Martin 021 sounds and feels entirely different than a Gibson B20. You can emulate a Tele or a Strat on a whole variety of different rigs, but they don't feel like the real thing, I've played with 12 sting voices on a six string and been VERY confused, and have come close to feeling sick with the disorientation of playing software altered tunings on a Variax. I didn't 'get' the VG series. If I'm honest, I don't 'get' amp modelling, preferring the 'real thing' - but I LOVE having new voices for guitar which I can shape and control using the techniques I have spent years leanring - and which provide far more control of shape of pitch than a keyboard player can ever hope to achieve via midi.

 

 

Then it sounds like the 55 isn't for you.

[falseknight]

When did your GR-50 get the ability to model a bunch of different guitars/basses with the ability to switch tunings on the fly?

 

Actually I don't use the synth, there are some funny little knobs on the headstock of the guitar and if I turn them, I change the tuning. The best thing about them is that the real guitar sound tuning tracks perfectly with the synth tuning

[Polaris20]

Actually I don't use the synth, there are some funny little knobs on the headstock of the guitar and if I turn them, I change the tuning. The best thing about them is that the real guitar sound tuning tracks perfectly with the synth tuning

You must be a delight to see at a show. Hold on everybody, while I retune the guitar, and completely jack the neck up, as well as the intonation.

[iancandler]

If this came as a rack unit it would be sitting here now, but the floor based model just isn't practical for someone who can't use their legs

[falseknight]

I use limited range tunings so neck tension and intonation are not an issue. I like what I feel through my fingers to match what I hear with my ears.

[DanRock101]

Greetings all! This is my first post! I have owned the GR33, GR20 & VG99....I sold the GR33 within a year of when I got it because of the terrible tracking! I'm a classical guitar player and a very clean player but I couldn't get the GR33 to work right.....but, I have/had to take into consideration what guitar I was using at the time. I had my Strat setup with the GK2 (the older pup) at the time. It was a bad match; that was in 2004......

Move ahead to 2007, I bought the GR20. I retrofitted my Tele with the GK3 and it worked, ok. Tracking was was eh as long as I set it up right. The ease of use of the GR20 was much better than the GR33. I think that has been the clincher for Roland's marketing, the user needs EASE not features.....BUT.....move to 2008....

In 2008 I played a VG99 and it was a REVELATION!!!! The tracking is KILLER! There is a tad latency but that latency feels like the sag you get when you're playing an amp with a tube rectifier I s*** you not! The VG's ability to route fx ANYWERE (especially when hooked up to a comp via USB) is amazing. The ability to tune to different tunings at the drop of a hat is killer. The Baritones are a REVELATION!!!!! All the sounds are great BUT, you have to be picky on what amp you use. Regular guitar amps don't work well with the VG99 in my experience. They sounded better through a powered monitor (my Mackies or even my Behringer) or even my AER acoustic amp. The distortion sounds sound good thru a tube amp, but if you're gana be switching, there is a trade off.

ONE CAVEAT about the VG99....if you're going to use the ACOUSTIC side of the VG99, you need FLATWOUND STRINGS! The acoustic sounds sound buzzy! That is because most guitarists are using 9's for their strings. Even 10's sound buzzy because those strings naturally slap on the guitar because of an electric guitar's lower action.....the fix? Again, FLATWOUND STRINGS! Try it! The acoustics sound AMAZING, but the trade off is the electric guitar patches will respond differently. The bottom line is the VG99 is ULTRA responsive. It puts out what you give it, for good or bad. The VG99 is truly amazing when all is said and done.

Now move on to the 2011 NAMM show which I got to attend. Boom, there's the GR-55. I played it there and it was great! I only had about 5 mins to play it because I had TONS of other places to go visit in such a short time. It did have a harpsicord and I was able to play some Bach preludes with NO PROBLEM and great tracking! I didn't have time to scroll through to see what other keyboard voices it has. The GR20 had some NICE lush electric pianos and keyboards. The pianos ALWAYS suffer because of the limited octave range on a guitar...but the GR20 had nice keyboard sounds....I SOLD my GR20 thinking the GR55 would replace it. Does anyone exactly WHAT keyboard sounds it has? I wish Roland would list those are their website but no As for now they're backordered.... I may just go without. The VG99 does track well in Logic for example and their midi out into a midi interface....but if the GR55 tracks faster since it doesn't have to go another stage of transfer (USB connectivity!), then maybe....we'll see.

[DanRock101]

 

It's not so much the multiple voices on a string (though the velocity changes are VERY useful), it is the ability to have different (or no)voices on either each string, or a group of strings. Tracking is ALWAYS an issue, which is why i acquired the Godin four years ago. it's incomparably better than the Roland hexaphonic pickups. if you string sensibly and tailor your technique to the strengths and weaknesses of the rig (in the same way you would tailor your technique to, say, acoustic guitar) there are no major issues. Incidentally I DO understand the modelling - I hate it with a real passion. I started lifeas an acoustic guitarist and still play as much acoustic as anything else. There is far more to the instrument than the sound. A Martin 021 sounds and feels entirely different than a Gibson B20. You can emulate a Tele or a Strat on a whole variety of different rigs, but they don't feel like the real thing, I've played with 12 sting voices on a six string and been VERY confused, and have come close to feeling sick with the disorientation of playing software altered tunings on a Variax. I didn't 'get' the VG series. If I'm honest, I don't 'get' amp modelling, preferring the 'real thing' - but I LOVE having new voices for guitar which I can shape and control using the techniques I have spent years leanring - and which provide far more control of shape of pitch than a keyboard player can ever hope to achieve via midi.

 

 

Agreed, COSM modeling is weird.....Since I play a Tele with 3 pickups, which is Strat like, but the neck on my Tele is a Warmoth Fatback which is very Les Paul-ish.... The COSM guitar-modeling works pretty good for me. I've always liked the Les Paul sound but the shorter scale neck, never felt right. I love the simplicity of a Tele and the sound of the 2nd & 4th pickups of a Strat, but don't like the feel of the Tremolo bridge. So, with my guitar, it works great. Had I had a stock Mexican Tele or Strat, which I think most people have and use with guitar synths, they're just not a good fit. You need to have a guitar set up specifically for a synth, it's just the bottom line. A race horse needs a person that's smallish and weighs 108lbs...NOT a guy like me! Make the right choices and you're there!

[Karma1]

Does anyone exactly WHAT keyboard sounds it has? I wish Roland would list those are their website but no

 

Looks like you've had lots of experience with Roland guitar synths - welcome to the forum.

 

I've also been trying to find out what synth engine the GR55 is based on. I know that the GR30 was from the Sound Canvas and the GR33 was from the JV-1080, but I haven't read anything about where the GR55 sounds come from.

[Hallex]

 

Looks like you've had lots of experience with Roland guitar synths - welcome to the forum. I've also been trying to find out what synth engine the GR55 is based on. I know that the GR30 was from the Sound Canvas and the GR33 was from the JV-1080, but I haven't read anything about where the GR55 sounds come from.

 

 

From what i read, it is the sd-50.

But i can't confirm.

[girevik]

Actually I don't use the synth, there are some funny little knobs on the headstock of the guitar and if I turn them, I change the tuning. The best thing about them is that the real guitar sound tuning tracks perfectly with the synth tuning

 

I know of one UK guitarist who can change a tuning in the middle of a song without missing a beat (banjo tuners are his preferred choice), is primarily an acoustic player, yet has an interest in MIDI.

 

Are you Adrian Legg?

[mygolfcart123]

Well I have made up my mind to get one when my income tax check comes in. It seems to be a great deal for an all in one unit to take out different places.

 

Though I will NOT be getting rid of my axon/motif XS rack combination! The Motif XS has some incredible sounds and the axon is hard to beat for it's tracking, but if I go anywhere, I can just use this unit and still have some decent synth sounds and leave my Motif/axon setup back at the church.