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Egens

Triton Le - sound quality in sequencer

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Hello.

 

I notices somthing pretty strange in my Triton Le.

When I play some tones in normal mode not in sequencer mode, the sounds sound way more realistic then they sound in sequencer mode.

 

For example, sound 31 in bank -G , is a distortion guitar.

When I play it, it sounds very cool, but when I try to record a song with it, in sequencer mode, it sounds different... Less realistic, and the sound quality is lower.

 

Anything to do here?

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Does the LE arrange effects non-optimally when operating as a multi-timbral sequencer?

 

Is that a program or a combi?

 

B>

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I think the LE only allows one insert effect in a mix (?)

On sample-based synths, you usually need the insert effect applied to sounds like electric guitars (to make them realistic.)

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Originally posted by Mutineer

I think the LE only allows one insert effect in a mix (?)

On sample-based synths, you usually need the insert effect applied to sounds like electric guitars (to make them realistic.)

 

What do you mean?

 

The electric guitars are realistic enough for me... but when I try to record these sounds, the quality is lower (I repeat; only in sequencer mode).

 

Did you mean that I should somehow activate the insert effect in the sequencer?

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Workstations have limitations on effects when operating in multitimbral mode (sequencer or multi).

Depending on brand and type you get from 3 upto 6 (I might be wrong though) insert effects when sequencing. It is indeed a very limiting factor since most voices in romplers rely on effects + organizing the effects in sequencer mode is generally pretty cumbersome.

 

Remedy: sequence externally or play in patch mode and multitrack track by track.

 

Sequencer mode on workstations is just a handy tool for rough compositions imho.

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Originally posted by eminor9

Workstations have limitations on effects when operating in multitimbral mode (sequencer or multi).

Depending on brand and type you get from 3 upto 6 (I might be wrong though) insert effects when sequencing. It is indeed a very limiting factor since most voices in romplers rely on effects + organizing the effects in sequencer mode is generally pretty cumbersome.


Remedy: sequence externally or play in patch mode and multitrack track by track.


Sequencer mode on workstations is just a handy tool for rough compositions imho.

I think theres only one insert effect.

So youre saying that in sequencer mode, the sound loses it's effecs? And I should activate insert effects to make it sound more realistic?

What do you mean by patch mode?

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Remember folks, this is the one who refuses to look in any manual that doesn't list his exact question in the index.

 

B>

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I don't know the architecture of the Triton since I own a Fantom.

The Fantom allows only 3 insert effects in multitimbre mode.

This means that in seq or mulmtimode only 3 patches (progams in Korg language) can contain the original effects from the patch/program. Other patches/programs used in a multi or seq mode will have to share the same effects as one of the three others or alternatively disabled. Setting it up is not very intuitive and limiting anyway so the seq mode on my Fantom barely gets used.

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Originally posted by packrat

Remember folks, this is the one who refuses to look in any manual that doesn't list his exact question in the index.


B>

 

I did looked at it. Never found what I'm looking for.

 

Here's the manual;

 

Basic guide:

 

http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/downloads/tritonle/docs/Le_BasicGuide.pdf

 

Parameter guide:

 

http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/downloads/tritonle/docs/Le_ParameterGuide.pdf

 

Triton Le easy start:

 

http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/downloads/tritonle/docs/TritonLeEasyStart.pdf

 

I don't think the answer is there (but maybe i didn't look good, although I believe I did), but if it is, it has to be in one of these three manuals..

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Originally posted by eminor9

I don't know the architecture of the Triton since I own a Fantom.

The Fantom allows only 3 insert effects in multitimbre mode.

This means that in seq or mulmtimode only 3 patches (progams in Korg language) can contain the original effects from the patch/program. Other patches/programs used in a multi or seq mode will have to share the same effects as one of the three others or alternatively disabled. Setting it up is not very intuitive and limiting anyway so the seq mode on my Fantom barely gets used.

 

hmm.. are you saying that out of the 600 (somthing like that..) programs the triton le got, only 1 (cause theres only 1 insert effect in the triton le,from what I understood, and you can choose from 89 types of effects for the insert) will be similar to the original!??

 

Or in your fantom, out of the who knows how much patches youve got there, only 3?

 

If I'm right, I think synth makers should start taking care of that.... cause that's a serious issue..

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Every workstation suffers from this problem. It's the same with a hardware mixing desk; you have "send" effects that you can use for all channels but you don't get to make different settings for different channels. You also have "insert" effects but you can only use them on a single instrument (unless you apply 'm as send but you don't want this with effects like distortion).

 

Find out what the effects are in that patch. See what the settings are for COMBI mode. It could also be that distortion was used on that patch as a global effect (sloppy, but nothing new).

 

The Novation Nova/Supernova and the KS-rack as well as the Virus TI do not suffer from this problem because they've put a crapload of CPU power in there just for the effects. On the other hand, those aren't workstations.

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Effects processing uses hardware processing resources so all synths have restrictions on the simultaneous use of multiple effects.

 

The Triton Classic/Extreme/Studio/Rack/Karma support 5 simultaneous insert effects, which can be used in Program, Combination, and Sequencer Mode.

 

For example:

-- Program A049 using 4 insert effects

-- Program B021 using 1 insert effect

-- Combination D120 using 2 insert effects

-- Combination A005 using 5 insert effects

 

The Triton LE and Korg TR only support 1 simultaneous insert effect. Therefore, if you have two different Programs (e.g. A049 and B021) that use 2 diffferent insert effects (out of the 89 available), those two sounds will not sound identical in Combi or Sequencer Mode as they do in Program mode.

 

The way to get around this (with any workstation) is to record each track to an audio track using an external recording device (hard disk recorder, your computer, etc.)

 

Read the following:

-- Triton LE Basic Guide pp. 108-110

-- Triton LE Parameter Guide pp. 155-163

 

Also, when you are in Sequencer Mode and select a Program, that Program does not automatically include the insert effect that was in Program Mode. You must:

-- manually insert the effect in Sequencer mode

OR

-- use the LE Operating System v1.5 "Auto Song Setup" (pg. 4 of the 1.5 Manual addendum), which allows you to be in Program or Combination mode and jump to a new Sequence where all of that Program or Combination's settings will be automatically setup in the Sequencer Mode.

 

 

P.S. Program Bank G is a GM (General Midi) Bank and these sounds will not sound as good as the normal (other bank) sounds

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Originally posted by Egens



hmm.. are you saying that out of the 600 (somthing like that..) programs the triton le got, only 1 (cause theres only 1 insert effect in the triton le,from what I understood, and you can choose from 89 types of effects for the insert) will be similar to the original!??


Or in your fantom, out of the who knows how much patches youve got there, only 3?


If I'm right, I think synth makers should start taking care of that.... cause that's a serious issue..

 

No, in patch/program mode each can have its own effect, only when you start working in multi/seq you are restricted. This is why I suggested to multitrack.

 

Contrary to their adds workstations have serious limitations.

 

Welcome to synth/frustration world.

 

One of the reasons I often prefer to play my acoustic piano. You actually play instead of going through another manual. :wave:

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Originally posted by Egens

I did looked at it. Never found what I'm looking for.


Here's the manual;


Basic guide:


http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/downloads/tritonle/docs/Le_BasicGuide.pdf


Parameter guide:


http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/downloads/tritonle/docs/Le_ParameterGuide.pdf


Triton Le easy start:


http://www.korg.co.uk/korg2003/downloads/tritonle/docs/TritonLeEasyStart.pdf


I don't think the answer is there (but maybe i didn't look good, although I believe I did), but if it is, it has to be in one of these three manuals..

 

With workstation keyboards, you really MUST read the manuals. Here is my suggestion:

1. Spend 15 minutes studying the Basic Guide Table of Contents to understand the manual's structure

 

2. Spend 20 minutes stuying the Parameter Guide Table of Contents AND Appendix to understand the structure

 

3.. Read the Basic Guide cover to cover. Read 15 minutes a day, and after a month you will have finished it and will have a good basic understanding.

 

4. Use the Parameter Guide as a Reference manual. It contains details of every mode (program/Combi, etc.), every menu, every parameter, and every parameter value.

 

Finally there is a forum devoted to the Triton series (including the TR):

http://www.tritonhaven.com/forum/index.html

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Originally posted by eminor9

One of the reasons I often prefer to play my acoustic piano. You actually play instead of going through another manual.
:wave:

 

It's got a pretty {censored}e supersaw, though ;).

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Originally posted by MartinHines

Effects processing uses hardware processing resources so all synths have restrictions on the simultaneous use of multiple effects.


The Triton Classic/Extreme/Studio/Rack/Karma support 5 simultaneous insert effects, which can be used in Program, Combination, and Sequencer Mode.


For example:

-- Program A049 using 4 insert effects

-- Program B021 using 1 insert effect

-- Combination D120 using 2 insert effects

-- Combination A005 using 5 insert effects


The Triton LE and Korg TR only support 1 simultaneous insert effect. Therefore, if you have two different Programs (e.g. A049 and B021) that use 2 diffferent insert effects (out of the 89 available), those two sounds will not sound identical in Combi or Sequencer Mode as they do in Program mode.


The way to get around this (with any workstation) is to record each track to an audio track using an external recording device (hard disk recorder, your computer, etc.)


Read the following:

-- Triton LE Basic Guide pp. 108-110

-- Triton LE Parameter Guide pp. 155-163


Also, when you are in Sequencer Mode and select a Program, that Program does not automatically include the insert effect that was in Program Mode. You must:

-- manually insert the effect in Sequencer mode

OR

-- use the LE Operating System v1.5 "Auto Song Setup" (pg. 4 of the 1.5 Manual addendum), which allows you to be in Program or Combination mode and jump to a new Sequence where all of that Program or Combination's settings will be automatically setup in the Sequencer Mode.



P.S. Program Bank G is a GM (General Midi) Bank and these sounds will not sound as good as the normal (other bank) sounds

 

I found nothing about this "Auto Song Setup" option... I couldn't find the manual you named (Theres only the le88 keys addendum manual, and pade 4 is not in english, and I dont think it mentions the auto song setup).

 

Could you explain to me how this option can be used / send me a link for this manual?

 

Thanks

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The "Auto song setup" is perfect! Same quality in sequence mode!

But theres still one problem... It keeps the quality for only 1 track... (I can't record more then 1 track with more then one instrument.... I mean, of course I can, but not with the same quality.. only the instument in track 1 will be good...)

 

Damn... couldn't they do it right?

I mean, they started allright, why didn't they finish their job?

Damn

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Originally posted by Egens

The "Auto song setup" is perfect! Same quality in sequence mode!

But theres still one problem... It keeps the quality for only 1 track... (I can't record more then 1 track with more then one instrument.... I mean, of course I can, but not with the same quality.. only the instument in track 1 will be good...)


Damn... couldn't they do it right?

I mean, they started allright, why didn't they finish their job?

Damn

 

Are you complaining about having only 1 insert effect or do you still not understand the concept of a fixed effects capacity?

 

The basic issue is as follows:

-- every synth workstation has a fixed effects processing capacity

-- effects sound good

-- sound designers tend to use effects on factory sounds/patches, many times using multiple effects on a single sound

-- when these various sounds are used in Song/Sequencer/multi-timbral mode, one can easily get in a situation where a person ends up trying to use more effects than there is effects capacity.

 

P.S. -- The other more expensive Triton models support 5 IFX because they have an additional effects processing chip in them

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Originally posted by MartinHines

The basic issue is as follows:

 

16 kids, and only a single apple, and no knife. Oh yeah, and 2 x 16 slices of watermelons.

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Originally posted by Egens

I think synth makers should start taking care of that.... cause that's a serious issue..

 

This has been a problem ever since the Roland MT32, the first multitimbral synth with an on-board effects unit.

 

As far as I know the best spec'ed machine for simultaneous effects today is the Yamaha Motif ES...it allows up to 8 insert effects at a time, so out of 16 multitimbral parts up to 8 can retain their original effects (all 16 parts can use the global effects). Both the insert and global effects are actually a chain of 2 effects (usually reverb is the 2nd in the chain); EQ is separate from the effects and available for each part. Still not perfect but it trumps the 5 inserts of Triton and 3 inserts of Fantom.

 

Of course the real solution is creating and using sounds that don't rely on effects!!!

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thats why is called triton "LE" -- Limited edition! if you want to play with the big boys you got to spend some dough. with the triton classic /pro/ studio etc -- you get 5 insert effect and 2 master effect in seq and combi mode. do you have the sampling option? with the sampling option -- you could resample the sound with the effect -- maybe?

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